BBC bees tonight-Someone save me from these loonies, please!!!!!

[Brian Bush]

I was alerted to this programme by a neighbour who told me it had been mentioned on the radio several times last week.
Programme started well with Ian Holmer talking about his good gentle bees.
It then deteriorated into a plug for the crazies of the Natural Beekeeping Trust espousing chemical free beekeeping and we should not eat honey but only remove a little for medicinal use.Ian did his best to point out that bees store a surplus of honey and more importantly hives that were never inspected presented a danger of disease transmission to beekeepers who care for the health of their colonies.

 

[Farmer Tom]

Station please? Radio/ TV/ Iplayer?

 

[andydormer]

Iplayer bbc 1, 'inside out south', 6/2/17 edition.

not yet available online....

 

[pargyle]

Well ... unfortunately it showed the two opposite ends of the beekeeping spectrum - Heidi Hermann who is at the far North Pole of 'natural' beekeeping and Ian Holmer (or is it Homer ?) who is very traditional in his outlook and at the South Pole of 'your untreated bees will infect my treated bees' with diseases.

I have a degree of respect for both of them as they are both successful in the way they keep their bees. Somewhere between the two is where I am and it works for me.

What was interesting was the bloke making hollowed out log hives and then just chucking them up into a tree for bees to populate - I really liked that idea for someone who just wants feral bees in their garden I thought it was a lovely idea.

Unfortunately, there was the usual clap trap from both Ian and Heidi about the bees being 'in trouble' and the normal false statistic claiming bee numbers have reduced by half in the last century ...where this figure comes from is about as legitimate as the quote attributed to (and denied by !) Einstein about how long the human race would have left if there were no bees.

So .. watch it, there's no real surprises there - just playing to the same old gallery with a couple of people who are pretty set in the ways. A bit lightweight for a beekeeper I'm afraid but I've no doubt everyone at work in the morning will be asking me some questions ... so it does bring honey bees to the notice of Joe Public and that's no bad thing.

 

[Plenty of honey]

This is basically the big debate between the Natural Beekeeping Trust and us guys and girls, as i see it.
Ive been following it on the Face Book side, not that i really am bothered about the comments.
I made the comment of " a hole in a tree filled with bees high up, is a problem in a hole, High up.
Well that got them going!!
As much as i also respect their mantra, because, i actually want nice happy bees with really strong colonies (yes its shocking isn't it) i still cant work with the no inspection thing. Its just dosent wash.
I can kind of respect the view that " the minute you interfere with bees and harvest their honey, you enter in to a contract with the bees to maintain their food levels. I went away and thought about that for a good while and i do agree with it. However, treatment free, Nah.
The problem is, every bodies views are given audience, whether their qualified to give sensible answers or not. I dont go to an accountant and advise him or her on their tax status, its not my job.
My point is, i wonder if the beekeeping trust just realise how much work goes in to being a real beekeeper. Its not just a part time job , its a 247 job and commitment. Beekeepers have more scientific evidence behind them to prove beyond doubt, that the way we manage our bees, for what we do, is the best way. Tons of studies on numerous subjects, versus stick em in a box and walk away. Who's more qualified to answer? its as no brainer beekeepers tend to know their stuff!!

 

[user 6228]

This is basically the big debate between the Natural Beekeeping Trust and us guys and girls, as i see it.
Ive been following it on the Face Book side, not that i really am bothered about the comments.
I made the comment of " a hole in a tree filled with bees high up, is a problem in a hole, High up.
Well that got them going!!
As much as i also respect their mantra, because, i actually want nice happy bees with really strong colonies (yes its shocking isn't it) i still cant work with the no inspection thing. Its just dosent wash.
I can kind of respect the view that " the minute you interfere with bees and harvest their honey, you enter in to a contract with the bees to maintain their food levels. I went away and thought about that for a good while and i do agree with it. However, treatment free, Nah.
The problem is, every bodies views are given audience, whether their qualified to give sensible answers or not. I dont go to an accountant and advise him or her on their tax status, its not my job.
My point is, i wonder if the beekeeping trust just realise how much work goes in to being a real beekeeper. Its not just a part time job , its a 247 job and commitment. Beekeepers have more scientific evidence behind them to prove beyond doubt, that the way we manage our bees, for what we do, is the best way. Tons of studies on numerous subjects, versus stick em in a box and walk away. Who's more qualified to answer? its as no brainer beekeepers tend to know their stuff!!

But all of the studies are of bees in thin wooden boxes, the behaviour of bees in trees has not been described by science. A part from the basic dimensions of the cavities and my own study no one has described the properties of the tree cavities bees use. In this "vacuum" of science others seek to fill it with things other than science.

 

[sunhivebee]

Richard, you say "My point is, i wonder if the beekeeping trust just realise how much work goes in to being a real beekeeper. Its not just a part time job , its a 247 job and commitment. Beekeepers have more scientific evidence behind them to prove beyond doubt, that the way we manage our bees, for what we do, is the best way. Tons of studies on numerous subjects, versus stick em in a box and walk away. Who's more qualified to answer? its as no brainer beekeepers tend to know their stuff!!"
It is with people such as yourself in mind that the Natural Beekeeping Trust has kindly made available the biggest compilation of science in support of natural beekeeping that ever there has been. It cost a lot of time, and money, too, but we are keen to serve an educational purpose, so we did it. We hope people will find it useful.Here is a link http://www.naturalbeekeepingtrust.org/the-science
Quite apart from that is may interest you that renowned bee researcher Thomas Seeley is presenting some very interesting research which will serve well to underpin the principles of beecentered husbandry. We shall have pleasure to present it in the April issue of Natural Bee Husbandry Magazine published by Northern Bee Books. On the very facebook group you like to frequent I have already come across a hapless beekeeper suggesting that world-renowned professor Seeley is now "jumping on the natural beekeepers' wagon"
I found that really quite hilarious. How things change .....
One wonders who drives said wagon? I leave it to you to ponder.

__________________

 

[sunhivebee]

Philip, this "Unfortunately, there was the usual clap trap from both Ian and Heidi about the bees being 'in trouble' and the normal false statistic claiming bee numbers have reduced by half in the last century " is a disappointing statement coming from you .... I do not recall any such statements being made. You have a rich imagination. I wonder what your usual "clap trap" might be .... but probably your own musings are characterised by insight and wisdom.
Wishing you all the best.

 

[B+.]

Where is Cerberus when you need him?

 

[For want of a better word]

Where is Cerberus when you need him?

Do not tempt her out of her crystal maze!
Spring is on the way and we will have to contend with the Flow's hive loonies!!
Mytten da

 

[Swarm]

As long as a human is involved in some way there is no such thing as natural, just alternative.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Iplayer bbc 1, 'inside out south', 6/2/17 edition.
not yet available online....

Looks like it's there now. Any chance of getting this (video and/or audio) on YouTube?

 

[madasafish]

The words "natural" and "beekeeping" applied together form a classic oxymoron.

 

[birdsandbees]

The words "natural" and "beekeeping" applied together form a classic oxymoron.

come to think of it your are right on the money

There's pet or feral bees, left to do their own thing without any intervention, in whatever 'hive' is provided and there's kept bees.

perhaps a better description would be minimal interference beekeeping?

 

[Little John]

The words "natural" and "beekeeping" applied together form a classic oxymoron.

It's even worse than that. Consider the opposite - unnatural.

The concept of 'unnatural' has seriously heavy negative baggage attached to it - 'unnatural sex' and so forth. And so the implication effectively created by the use of such an adjective is that anyone not engaged in 'Natural' Beekeeping must be doing something sininster, unhealthy, 'naughty', bad - or just plain wrong.

Natural is a very 'loaded' word.
LJ

 

[domino]

perhaps a better description would be minimal interference beekeeping?

Beehousing or hiving.

 

[B+.]

Natural is a very 'loaded' word.

Nature is not, as some would have you believe, benign. It is cruel and malicious. It preys on the young and weak (also the elderly and infirm). The survivors are those best suited for that environment, or perhaps, more accurately just survivors.
Whether you believe in "natural selection" or favour a more intenvensionist approach is really a distraction. IMHO, the important thing is the direction this "evolution" is taking us. We have molded the countryside to suit our needs. We have domesticated farm animals for food and ease of management. We are only just beginning to be able to do that with the honeybee so it is relatively cumbersome and labour intensive. Perhaps that will change as our understanding grows. I don't know.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The words "natural" and "beekeeping" applied together form a classic oxymoron.

Maybe the clue is in the word keeping

 

[tonyofarr]

It's even worse than that. Consider the opposite - unnatural.

The concept of 'unnatural' has seriously heavy negative baggage attached to it - 'unnatural sex' and so forth. And so the implication effectively created by the use of such an adjective is that anyone not engaged in 'Natural' Beekeeping must be doing something sininster, unhealthy, 'naughty', bad - or just plain wrong.

Natural is a very 'loaded' word.
LJ

That is one of the things I find most irritating about 'natural beekeepers', this holier-than-thou attitude and the implication that other beekeepers do not care about their bees and are only keeping them for what they can get out of them financially. We care very deeply about all of our colonies and their health and we are not just in this for the honey we can obtain. We sell all of our honey locally and have a large number of very satisfied customers who would be very disappointed if they could no longer buy our honey.

There are many viruses, diseases and pests that effect our bees that do not belong to our ecosystem. If we did not control these we would not have any bees. Just calling them 'natural' does not make them immune to foul brood.

If beekeepers are not checking their bees properly and dealing with problems they see they are not being responsible. There is nothing more distressing to any beekeeper than seeing a colony riddled with disease and viruses, especially when these can be treated. A healthy colony is a happy one. You can tell the difference just by listening to them.

Foul brood is a notifiable disease for very good reason. This is not going to discriminate between bees being kept in a natural or traditional manner We must be able to check for these and identify them when present. We are then legally obliged to report it to the ministry bee inspector. Any person not able or prepared to do this should not be keeping bees. It is irresponsible and shows a complete disregard for the health of neighboring bee colonies. As a result this could have a serious impact on people's businesses.

There may be people who think we should not be keeping bees for money, but I assure my family and customer's would not agree.

 

[birdsandbees]

:

We care very deeply about all of our colonies and their health and we are not just in this for the honey we can obtain.
A healthy colony is a happy one. You can tell the difference just by listening to them.

+1

Honey is a bonus, any surplus which is produced by happy, healthy bees is the beekeepers reward for their efforts in looking after them and keeping them safe and well.