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Tom Bick 

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I want to place a bait hive on my allotment and dont know the best internal configuration to have should I -

A- Set the hive in position with only one old frame inside and if any if the bees locate it they may think that they have good space to naturally fill the cavity, the problem being that if its not checked regularly and bees move in then it could be a bit of a mess to sort out later,

Or

B- Set the hive with one old frame and lots of frames and foundation again trying to think like a bee if they fined it and think not a lot of room in hear and leave or will they think lots of foundation happy days

I know its a bit of a gamble either way and I have never heard of it working but is that because of to many frames?
 

Norm 

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I have had a lot of success with baiting swarms, check out my latest blog entry for some tips and photos.

Norm
 
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Tom Bick 

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Thanks Norm

If its your latest blog entry why dont you just enlighten us hear?
 

Norm 

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Tom,

I just tried to copy and paste from my blog to here and it didn't copy any of the photos so I think it would be easier to read it there. If I were allowed to link to it, it would have been easier but hey ho!

Norm
 

Chris B 

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Very interesting Norm.

You state that 36 litres is a better volume than twenty-something. My gut feeling is you are right, although I've personally had a few inconvenient swarms in single Nationals set aside for frame recycling. (I think the old comb is probably more significant than the exact volume). Are your figures learned by trial and error or have you gleaned useful data from anywhere else?

I seem to have much more success with accidental bait hives than with deliberate ones - something it would be nice to rectify.

Regards
Chris
 
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40 litres is also quoted, which is as near as makes little difference to Norm's 36. However, if the bees can't find a 30+ litre cavity I am sure they will take a National readily enough. If they are trained bees they will soon put in planning permission for an extension, ie. second brood chamber etc.
 
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Tom Bick 

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Tom,

I just tried to copy and paste from my blog to here and it didn't copy any of the photos so I think it would be easier to read it there. If I were allowed to link to it, it would have been easier but hey ho!

Norm
Just looked at your blog Norm interesting so going by your success my suggestion of A in the first post is the way forward make the bees think they have lots of room. Obviously as with a national and bees move in a bit of sorting out to do afterwords
 

oliver90owner 

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A standard National brood is thereabouts, near as makes no odds, 40 l. I find this about as good as anything.

I now add a swarm lure to the couple of gash frames. Top frame bars and some starter strips of foundation are probably favourite if you are not checking very regularly, to try to prevent the possible mess (combs on the crownboard) A divider, I think is probably necessary in a 14 x 12 brood.

I wonder if there is a preference for warm way or cold way......but I never leave a wide entrance.

I rather liked the idea of horizontal plant pots (in the hornet thread recently?). Easily raised up a tree, cheap and cheerful and probably a mess to transfer. Worth looking at though.

Shall now go and compare with Norm's blog.

Regards, RAB
 

SixFooter 

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I read somewhere that an ideal bait hive is a 15" cube. I've made three from a sheet of ply over the winter.
 
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Tom Bick 

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I now add a swarm lure to the couple of gash frames. Top frame bars and some starter strips of foundation are probably favourite if you are not checking very regularly, to try to prevent the possible mess (combs on the crownboard) A divider, I think is probably necessary in a 14 x 12 brood.


Regards, RAB
Cheers Rab

Putting in the top bars and a bit of starter foundation is a good tip may also get a nice bit of natural comb to pass round.

I assume when you say divider that you refer to a dummy board or similar to reduce the space

Cheers
 

Norm 

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Chris B these methods of baiting swarms are methods I have previously read about, tried and found they worked. One thing I forgot to mention which is also very important is the entrance size. I like about an inch by 5/8 like this one.

if the entrance is too big, they will reject it.
 

Heather 

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Is the lemon balm plant any use or is the lemongrass oil the magic touch:cheers2:

And litres :confused: - what is that all about- please can you talk in bee language - 5 frame, 10/11 frame - super - brood,?? :Confused: please - I dont have a clue what you mean
 
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Norm 

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Is the lemon balm plant any use or is the lemongrass oil the magic touch:cheers2:
May be worth a try. I heard once someone sprayed the inside of the hive with Pledge lemon furniture polish! Trouble is I can't remember if it worked or not!:confused:
 

Heather 

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Re-added as posted before latest - Polish - :ack2: dont think bees would like that - may damage them

And litres - what is that all about- please can you talk in bee language - 5 frame, 10/11 frame - super - brood,?? :Confused: please - I dont have a clue what you mean
 

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I noticed that in Norm's pic above he has painted the entrance white,I have read before that painting the entrance white pushes up the chance of success,someone did a study and said a white small entrance shouts to the scout bees "In here!!" and multiplies the chance of success by X amount.

Old Norm know's his stuff ;)
 

Norm 

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And litres - what is that all about- please can you talk in bee language - 5 frame, 10/11 frame - super - brood,?? :Confused: please - I dont have a clue what you mean
Measurement of Nest Cavity Volume by the Honey Bee (Apis mellifera), by Thomas Seeley 1977

Abstract
1. Honey bee swarms exercise considerable care when selecting a nest site. One nest site variable evaluated by bees is cavity volume. 2. The volume distribution of natural nests (Fig. 1) has a wide range (12 to 443 1 observed), but most nest volumes are clustered in the 20- to 100-1 subrange. The modal volume is approximately 35 1. This distribution reflects a process of volume selection among potential nest cavities when a swarm chooses its nest site. For example, swarms prefer 40-1 to 10 and 100-1 nest cavities. In nature, the volume-selection process operates primarily by rejecting undersized cavities, but also by rejecting oversized cavities. 3. The observed limit in resolution power of volume perception was discrimination between cubes differing by 15 1. 4. A swarm's preference in nest cavity volume is independent of swarm size. 5. A scout bee's inspection of a nest site spans approximately 40 min. During this time a scout spends most of her time at the nest site, engaged in numerous brief inspections inside and outside the nest cavity. When inside a cavity, a scout's principal behavior is rapid walking about the cavity's inner surfaces. The pattern of walking movements over successive interior inspections shows (1) a general progression from walking mostly near the entrance to walking deeper inside the cavity, and (2) a tendency to traverse different regions of the cavity's interior surface on different inspections. 6. Honey bees can measure cavity volume if at least one of two conditions is fulfilled: (1) the cavity interior is well illuminated, or (2) the cavity's inner surfaces can be completely traversed by walking. The natural conditions for volume perception are probably low (<0.5 lux) cavity illumination, but traversable inner surfaces. The importance of walking to volume perception was demonstrated by manipulating scout bees' perceptions of a cavity's volume by varying the amount of walking required to move between points inside the cavity. The hypothesis is presented that scouts measure the volumes of dimly illuminated cavities by integrating information on the distances and directions of walking movements made inside the cavity.
Hey Admin, less of the old, I may be bus pass age but that's not old alright!:laughing-smiley-004
 

Hombre 

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It would be interesting to witness you buying a fridge or freezer Heather and explaining to the salesman that you are looking for a double 11 frame National sized one. :)

1/1000 of a cubic metre or 1000 cubic centimetres.
I like to think how many 1 litre bricks of Riocca, milk or fruit juice I might be able to fit into it at a push. :)

Please forgive my perverse sense of humour. :toetap05:
 

Heather 

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When I buy fridges- I just get a double one for me as a veggie and a double one for him as a carnivore- Couldnt give a stuff about capacity- if I like it I buy it!!! :cheers2: Same with most things
But thanks Norm for the info - and NO- def not old :cheers2:

When I measure an area- I imagine my husband lying down and thats 6' so I multiply by him in my mind - fairly accurate - its a woman thing- alright:toetap05:

But I wouldnt give you an overdose of morphine:)

Anyway - I have 9 live colonies of decent sized lovely bees - nuff said
 
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oliver90owner 

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Rooftops/Heather,

Read my post. Standard National broodbox will give, as near as dammit is to swearing, 40l.

That is assuming you have the floor as an extra 22mm and an extra 7-8mm for a bottom-spaced crownboard.

The cuboid volume will be very close to 40l and there will be a bit extra (which I have ignored) space for frame lugs: (0.225 + 0.030) depth.

0.370 *0.42* 0.255 /1000 = 39.6l. Some of my broods are 230mm deep and that would take it to 40.4l

Regards, RAB
 

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