Arch of empty super frame cells above brood nest

[Curly green finger's]

Op has only one colony.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Op has only one colony.

Of course
A pity
Plonking a frame of foundation in the middle of a brood is an excellent way to get a frame drawn in no time.
I’m hoping to do a couple today and put a removed store frame in the freezer.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Of course

A pity

Plonking a frame of foundation in the middle of a brood is an excellent way to get a frame drawn in no time.

I’m hoping to do a couple today and put a removed store frame in the freezer.

Thinking about it dani, the op could of had the option of increase.. Splitting the colony and introducing a mated queen, if she had the required equipment?

Im doing a a/s on a colony today sometimes they never play ball whatsoever you do.


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[E&MBees]

Oh dear! It’s seems that my simple question has caused discord, not my intention.

I was curious as to why the empty arch was there. Couldn’t find any suggestions in my books. I don’t have lots of spare equipment until my Maisie’s order arrives. I agree that a brood and a half is not the most ideal way forward, but it’s a temporary measure. I forgot to mention in my original post that I had removed play cups. Nothing more, but after the year I’ve had, loosing them now for the sake of not adding an empty super to provide a bit of extra space would be gutting. For whatever reason, the bees just don’t like the empty drawn brood frame that would give them the extra space in the brood box. It’s on the edge of the nest, I’ve tried moving it, but they ignore it in favour of other ones. I’m not sure that I want to spilt them this late in the year, especially with the weather all over the place. They are a strong colony and will hopefully with my care come through the winter remaining strong. Surely it is better to wait until the spring and split then as part of swarm prevention? Perhaps in years to come, when I know a bit more, a late split may be appropriate, but I’d rather not do one now.

The super containing the capped honey and the ‘empty arch’s’ remains above the QX.

I’m sure the bees will make it apparent over the weekend if I have displeased them!

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh dear! It’s seems that my simple question has caused discord, not my intention.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

You’re talking to beekeepers remember

 

[Curly green finger's]

You’re talking to beekeepers remember

Yep you are, we all have our own ways.

I think we could call it a gentle discussion but it's all good.. It beats the days on here when folk were being quite vile to each other.

Emily you've done the best you could and I take my hat of to you.
No worries.


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[Swarm]

Oh dear! It’s seems that my simple question has caused discord, not my intention.

I was curious as to why the empty arch was there. Couldn’t find any suggestions in my books. I don’t have lots of spare equipment until my Maisie’s order arrives. I agree that a brood and a half is not the most ideal way forward, but it’s a temporary measure. I forgot to mention in my original post that I had removed play cups. Nothing more, but after the year I’ve had, loosing them now for the sake of not adding an empty super to provide a bit of extra space would be gutting. For whatever reason, the bees just don’t like the empty drawn brood frame that would give them the extra space in the brood box. It’s on the edge of the nest, I’ve tried moving it, but they ignore it in favour of other ones. I’m not sure that I want to spilt them this late in the year, especially with the weather all over the place. They are a strong colony and will hopefully with my care come through the winter remaining strong. Surely it is better to wait until the spring and split then as part of swarm prevention? Perhaps in years to come, when I know a bit more, a late split may be appropriate, but I’d rather not do one now.

The super containing the capped honey and the ‘empty arch’s’ remains above the QX.

I’m sure the bees will make it apparent over the weekend if I have displeased them!

Thanks for all the suggestions.

The comb they are ignoring, is there anything at all in it? You could remove it and do what Dani suggested with a frame of foundation.

 

[E&MBees]

The comb they are ignoring, is there anything at all in it? You could remove it and do what Dani suggested with a frame of foundation.

It’s drawn, but as of Sunday just gone, completely empty. Is it worth replacing with new? It’s not particularly old. Or could I move it to the middle of the brood best? But I thought it wasn’t a good idea to split the brood.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It’s drawn, but as of Sunday just gone, completely empty. Is it worth replacing with new? It’s not particularly old. Or could I move it to the middle of the brood best? But I thought it wasn’t a good idea to split the brood.

as I've said before, there's splitting the brood and there's splitting the brood.

Putting an empty drawn comb in the middle of a strong colony (that's the bit the non thinkers seem to disregard in their mantra chant) does no harm, if the queen is short of laying space she'll be straight in there. in fact I sometimes do it just to encourage the queen to lay more when she is reluctant to venture to the outskirts of the cluster, although once last year I did it in the middle of a heavy flow and they decided it was a better idea to fill it full of pollen!
Personally, I don't think they are particularly short of space.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It’s ok to split a strong colony with one frame. I do it every year with a few colonies.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or better still give them a proper size brood box ... a 14 x 12 !

If you can't manage a single deep then double brood is better.

 

[E&MBees]

as I've said before, there's splitting the brood and there's splitting the brood.

Putting an empty drawn comb in the middle of a strong colony (that's the bit the non thinkers seem to disregard in their mantra chant) does no harm, if the queen is short of laying space she'll be straight in there. in fact I sometimes do it just to encourage the queen to lay more when she is reluctant to venture to the outskirts of the cluster, although once last year I did it in the middle of a heavy flow and they decided it was a better idea to fill it full of pollen!
Personally, I don't think they are particularly short of space.

Thanks. When I look at the weekend, I’ll move the empty brood frame to the middle, if it hasn’t been utilised.

 

[Swarm]

Is that spare comb alongside the nest? Seems odd for it to be empty, my bees would have nectar in it at least.
Eight and a half brooded frames leaves just two and a half for stores and one comb is empty. Maybe something about it they don't like, which is why I suggested taking it out and putting a foundation frame in the middle like Dani said.

 

[E&MBees]

It is next to the nest, I moved it there two weeks ago, but still no interest. I’ll give them a new sheet of foundation and see what happens.

 

[pargyle]

It is next to the nest, I moved it there two weeks ago, but still no interest. I’ll give them a new sheet of foundation and see what happens.

Bees can be a bit fussy at times... I am foundationless and I usually make nice triangular bits of timber to give them a starter covered with wax under the tip bar of the frame. I use any old scraps of softwood usually for these strips ... never had a problem until one frame last year and they would not touch it ... I put a different frame in its place and it was drawn in a couple of days. The only thing I could see that caused it was the strip I'd made was the mahogany edging from an old chest of drawers I broke up. I wondered if it was either the timber I had used or the possibility that it had been impregnated with something at some time in the past that they disliked ... they obviously preferred the pallet wood replacement to the deluxe mahogany... that's local mongrels for you - no sense of taste and quality !

 

[drdrday]

Bees can be a bit fussy at times...

Definitely! I gave one of my colonies a second brood box earlier this year, full of foundation. It was a mix of foundation from various suppliers, but the bees made it very clear that two frames in particular really weren't to their liking as they drew all of the frames around them in preference!
I wouldn't mind, but there's no way I'd know where that specific wax came from so they'll just have to suck it up if they end up with the same foundation again ;-)

 

[E&MBees]

Definitely! I gave one of my colonies a second brood box earlier this year, full of foundation. It was a mix of foundation from various suppliers, but the bees made it very clear that two frames in particular really weren't to their liking as they drew all of the frames around them in preference!
I wouldn't mind, but there's no way I'd know where that specific wax came from so they'll just have to suck it up if they end up with the same foundation again ;-)

Let’s hope they like the wax I have got now, otherwise they will be stuck next year as I did a bulk order!

 

[Curly green finger's]

Not at all, just because everyone is chattering about the arch of empty cells in the first super, doesn't mean you need to give it to the queen to lay in. sn it on countless hives this year and in the past and kept them comfortably on single brood the whole season.

Can I ask what manipulations you do to keep a colony on single brood all season?

 

[Repwoc]

Demaree. Which means double brood, separated by a couple of supers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Demaree. Which means double brood, separated by a couple of supers.

not always. Supers put on early enough not when they're nearly full helps a lot as well as the occasional rotation of frames to ensure the queen finds the unused space. Leaving a frame (even of drawn foundation) at the very edge of the brood sometimes ensure it gets ignored.
I had a queen once who used to lay wall to wall brood in all eleven frames, never once found them preparing to swarm.