Arch of empty super frame cells above brood nest

[E&MBees]

I noticed as I inspected my bees today, that they have left an arch of empty cells in the super frames above some of the brood nest. The frames are all drawn. I have a qx in between the brood box and the super.

There is brood in 8.5 frames of the brood box, one complete brood frame of pollen, 1.5 frames drawn wax and a dummy board. The queen has laid almost to the edges of the brood frames, leaving little space for the arch of pollen and stores around the brood. The super was about half full of bees on today’s inspection.

Is there anyway that I can encourage them to fill the empty cells in the super frames?

Thanks.

 

[enrico]

They often do that if there has been brood in the super frames at any time however they will fill it if they need it. Sadly it is very difficult to encourage bees to do anything!
Remember that if the queen is laying 1000 eggs a day the 1000 bees are emerging and leaving empty cells each day too so there is an optimum space for her to have, however if you feel she needs more room then add another brood box under the present one and they will use it if they need it!
E

 

[drex]

For me This is a definite sign that they need more brood space, so follow enricos advice. They are leaving the space up in the super ready for her to lay, but of course she can't get up there due to the QX.

 

[E&MBees]

For me This is a definite sign that they need more brood space, so follow enricos advice. They are leaving the space up in the super ready for her to lay, but of course she can't get up there due to the QX.

Thanks for the advice. I will make up a second brood box, but it will have undrawn foundation.

I do have an empty super with frames drawn. As it’s late in the season, would it be worth using that instead as it would provide the queen with immediate laying space. The bees would need to draw out the brood foundation if I added that. I know that many beekeepers feel that brood and a half is not good, but it would only be until the queens laying slows down. Then next year, if she needs it, I can add an additional brood box earlier in the season. They have done amazingly well, as the colony was a small swarm gained at the beginning of June.

Thanks

 

[Curly green finger's]

I would give them the half.

 

[pargyle]

Or ... if you are not that worried about more honey this season .. you are on Standard Nationals as I recall ... remove the queen excluder and let her lay up where they want her to. They will stack honey above and to the side of the area in the super they use for brood and in a few weeks you may find that the brood nest shrinks and they start filling the super with stores ready for winter. Come the end of the season you will have a national brood box and a super with stores and they will overwinter on a brood and a half. I know quite a few beekeepers on standard nationals that like to leave a super of stores in place for them to over winter.

Of course, if you really want the honey then a second super under the queen excluder will preserve the honey you already have in the first super - but, you may find that the queen lays up through the centre of the second super and they store any more honey around the brood in the super and ignore the space above the queen excluder !

Then, in another month or so you are going to have the same problem... Isn't beekeeping so much fun .. just one lark after another !

 

[Swarm]

Thanks for the advice. I will make up a second brood box, but it will have undrawn foundation.

I do have an empty super with frames drawn. As it’s late in the season, would it be worth using that instead as it would provide the queen with immediate laying space. The bees would need to draw out the brood foundation if I added that. I know that many beekeepers feel that brood and a half is not good, but it would only be until the queens laying slows down. Then next year, if she needs it, I can add an additional brood box earlier in the season. They have done amazingly well, as the colony was a small swarm gained at the beginning of June.

Thanks

Instant laying space is the way to go. Next year, with double brood you can use dummy boards to provide her with the space she requires.

 

[Amari]

I noticed as I inspected my bees today, that they have left an arch of empty cells in the super frames above some of the brood nest. The frames are all drawn. I have a qx in between the brood box and the super.

I've got a couple of similar colonies. I've wondered whether the arch of empty cells is due to the bees starting to take the honey down into the brood box for immediate use.
The July flow here is unusually poor so if there is little coming in and your BB is full of brood maybe they're drawing on their reserves from the super above??
What do others think?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have an empty arch of cells in many first supers on my colonies. Never give it a thought or lost any sleep over it - as the season comes to a close they fill it

 

[Curly green finger's]

I can see your point it has been a poor summer.
And like you I've colonys in the same position.
I even left a super of osr on one double brood colony and they used it and then filled it with summer honey.
Do you all still think on this occasion that Emily's colony needs space?
I've re-read her first post and 8. 5 frames of brood??
If it's solid brood I would still stand by my first post and it will cause no harm her still giving them the half.

Im still adding supers to some colonys and I've got one I'm just about to do a a/s on as they have started to draw out some play cups into queen cells one even had royal jelly in yesterday, tomorrow I'm doing the a/s.

 

[Amari]

I can see your point it has been a poor summer.

Im still adding supers to some colonys and I've got one I'm just about to do a a/s on as they have started to draw out some play cups into queen cells one even had royal jelly in yesterday, tomorrow I'm doing the a/s.

Seems a tad late in the season for artificial swarm....

 

[Curly green finger's]

Seems a tad late in the season for artificial swarm....

Well not really I had a colony swarm last season on the 19th of July just before I went on holiday.
But this is beside the point what are your thoughts to the question of space etc.?

 

[E&MBees]

Well, I’ve put the spare drawn super under the QX and will see what happens this week. The brood is wall to wall, with little stores surrounding it, other than in the top corners. If it looks as if it’s causing problems, I’ll remove it at the weekend. The empty arch in the super above the QX has never been filled with stores as I’ve kept an eye on it as I was wondering what the bees were up to.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Well, I’ve put the spare drawn super under the QX and will see what happens this week. The brood is wall to wall, with little stores surrounding it, other than in the top corners. If it looks as if it’s causing problems, I’ll remove it at the weekend. The empty arch in the super above the QX has never been filled with stores as I’ve kept an eye on it as I was wondering what the bees were up to.

IMHO you have done the right thing Emily, I think you will find eggs in the super by the week end keep us up dated pls.
Good luck!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I wouldn't be panicking with 81/2 frames of brood
Why is everybody obsessed with putting their hives on brood and a half? if people are than determined to have brood in shallows then just chuck away the queen excluder
Giver her another super by all means, then manage the colony

 

[Curly green finger's]

I wouldn't be panicking with 81/2 frames of brood
Why is everybody obsessed with putting their hives on brood and a half? if people are than determined to have brood in shallows then just chuck away the queen excluder
Giver her another super by all means, then manage the colony

That's a fair point emyr but a tad over the top.
She has used the half instead of getting them to draw another brood box.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's a fair point emyr but a tad over the top.
.

Not at all, just because everyone is chattering about the arch of empty cells in the first super, doesn't mean you need to give it to the queen to lay in. sn it on countless hives this year and in the past and kept them comfortably on single brood the whole season.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Not at all, just because everyone is chattering about the arch of empty cells in the first super, doesn't mean you need to give it to the queen to lay in. sn it on countless hives this year and in the past and kept them comfortably on single brood the whole season.

Well it's easily rectified and the op comes across as being very intelligent.

Sent from my YAL-L21 using Tapatalk

 

[pargyle]

I wouldn't be panicking with 81/2 frames of brood
Why is everybody obsessed with putting their hives on brood and a half? if people are than determined to have brood in shallows then just chuck away the queen excluder
Giver her another super by all means, then manage the colony

Or better still give them a proper size brood box ... a 14 x 12 !

 

[Buzzlodge]

What about simply removing a couple of frames of brood and using them to strengthen a weaker colony?
Replace them with drawn brood comb if you have it, or foundation if not.
This will cool down colony expansion and give more space in the brood box. Additional summer bees in a bursting hive arent really needed right now and it will avoid yourself going down the brood and a half road.