Apivar

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I can't understand why any modern beekeeper would want to use any form of synthetic pesticide full stop. Most of us are concerned that CCD is at least part due to the use of pesticides which interfere with invertebrate nervous systems (ie neonicotinoids) so why intentionally add something vaguely similar directly into our hives.
 
North Devon BKA were using Apivar in 2005: http://www.northdevonbees.org/member_pages/news_arch1205.htm (if link doesn't work: it's a link to their newsletter at the time). It would be interesting to know their verdict on the stuff a few years later.

Amitraz has been tested a few times for potential residues in honey & wax, and found to be better than coumaphos compounds: http://www.culturaapicola.com.ar/apuntes/revistaselectronicas/apidologie/38-6/06.pdf

(although there are other studies showing small amounts of residue).

It's tempting to think that this means it's relatively acceptable for hive treatments, but I'm inclined to agree with Brosville: there are other issues involved apart from honey & wax residues, such as the long-term effect on bee health, and the presence in our own food chain of yet more tiny traces of yet another "escaped" veterinary medicine. It's not that we can't cope with this, just that it's another thing to process on top of everything else, and as far as I can see there's no long-term environmental studies on the effect of its use as a hive treatment. I can't help getting a bad feeling about it.

There's an interesting Beeculture article on the effects of miticide treatments over time: http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=626
It's quite persuasive re. the effects on bee reproduction, i.e. use of miticides appears to have weakened the breeding stock of bees.

Even if thymol and other more "natural" treatments start to fail, I wouldn't want to use organophosphates or similar. :(It's hard to lose colonies, but I think I'd rather risk losing my weakest bees than plough on with stronger and stronger treatments, getting more and more resistant mites and progressively weaker bees....
 
There is a company in manchester that has the import certificate to bring Apivar over from France - Animal Medical Centre, 511 Wilbraham Road, chorlton, Manchester M21 0UB 01618813329 contact name Julie, they also keep bee's
 
There is a company in manchester that has the import certificate to bring Apivar over from France - Animal Medical Centre, 511 Wilbraham Road, chorlton, Manchester M21 0UB 01618813329 contact name Julie, they also keep bee's
 
what is so frustrating is that there are probably perfectly good, safe and effective cures out there for all of the ills that ail bees, but because there is no commercial advantage in finding cures in cinnamon, garlic or icing sugar (because they're not patentable), there'll be no "official" work done in proving it's efficacy, and working out the best way to treat, except by enthusiastic amateurs....... in the meantime, we'll end up with varroa immune to yet another chemical toxin, and small hive beetle thriving on sheep dip.......


Not just bees Brosville, most people would be amazed at what is available if you know where to look, and disgusted at the same time because of the cover ups. Others of course believe everything they are told by people who have most to gain for themselves by covering up cheap/natural, unpatentable remedies. As my brother says, 'people are funny animals'.
 
Coumaphos:

Health Effects

Coumaphos is an organophosphate [insecticide] which means it is a Cholinesterase Inhibitor and is highly toxic is ingested or inhaled and moderately toxic if absorbed dermally. A good summary of the acute health effects and symptoms is from EXTOXNET:

"When inhaled, the first effects are usually respiratory and may include bloody or runny nose, coughing, chest discomfort, difficult or short breath, and wheezing due to constriction or excess fluid in the bronchial tubes. Skin contact with Organophosphates may cause localized sweating and involuntary muscle contractions. Eye contact will cause pain, bleeding, tears, pupil constriction, and blurred vision. Following exposure by any route, other systemic effects may begin within a few minutes or be delayed for up to 12 hours. These may include pallor, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal cramps, headache, dizziness, eye pain, blurred vision, constriction or dilation of the eye pupils, tears, salivation, sweating, and confusion. Severe poisoning will affect the central nervous system, producing incoordination, slurred speech, loss of reflexes, weakness, fatigue, involuntary muscle contractions, twitching, tremors of the tongue or eyelids, and eventually paralysis of the body extremities and the respiratory muscles. In severe cases there may also be involuntary defecation or urination, psychosis, irregular heart beats, unconsciousness, convulsions and coma. Death may be caused by respiratory failure or cardiac arrest."

Workers exposed to coumaphos for an extended period of time have reported impaired memory and concentration, disorientation, severe depressions, irritability, confusion, headache, speech difficulties, delayed reaction times, nightmares, sleepwalking and drowsiness or insomnia .

Coumaphos is highly toxic to birds, aquatic organisms, and a moderate hazard to other beneficial species such as bees. (EXTOXNET).

Residues: Coumaphos is a non-volatile, fat soluble substance and can migrate from wax into stored honey. Residues are a major problem for coumaphos, at least in the solution form. A number of studies have found residues in wax8; 13; 140and in samples of commercial honey44; 140. Coumaphos is the most commonly found miticide in honey in Germany140. Coumaphos was found in newly produced wax 6 months after hives were treated with Perizin23. Coumaphos added at the rate of 10ppm to beeswax foundation was present at a similar level thereafter, and increased mite mortality dramatically in the first brood cycle. Honey bee cocoons acted as a barrier for chemical transfer in subsequent brood cycles51.
.....................................................................................
 
:spam:

Don't quite understand why coumaphos suddenly appears in a thread about apivar.
 
I wouldn't use organophosphates - my future son-in-law has organophosphate poisoning and having seen the results of this - I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole...
 
I can't understand why any modern beekeeper would want to use any form of synthetic pesticide full stop. Most of us are concerned that CCD is at least part due to the use of pesticides which interfere with invertebrate nervous systems (ie neonicotinoids) so why intentionally add something vaguely similar directly into our hives.

For the sake of balance- SOME of us are concerned that CCD is at least part due to the use of pesticides, some of us suspect that it's down to the spread of exotic pests and diseases by transporting of infected bees, and some of us are just hoping for some conclusive research.
 
I wouldn't use organophosphates - my future son-in-law has organophosphate poisoning and having seen the results of this - I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole...

Apivar isn't an OP.
 
:spam:

Don't quite understand why coumaphos suddenly appears in a thread about apivar.
You might want to re-read the thread then.

Apivar is obviously another treatment for varroa.
Brosville mentioned that Defra are thinking about using Coumaphos as a controllant.
If you look elsewhere on the web, you'll see that this is quite plausable since it is already happening in other countries.

As a whole I think the thread is discussing the implications of using nasty chemcals to 'help' our bees and as such the point about coumaphos comes under that. One more chemical possibly to go into beekeepers' hives who don't know better, as the powers that be told them.
 
Don't quite understand why coumaphos suddenly appears in a thread about apivar.

You might want to re-read the thread then.

Apivar is obviously another treatment for varroa.
Brosville mentioned that Defra are thinking about using Coumaphos as a controllant.

Yes, but for small hive beetle- which is still a bit of a diversion from apivar...
 
"Don't quite understand why coumaphos suddenly appears in a thread about apivar" - dead simple really, I was bemoaning the eagerness with which several in the beekeeping world will blanket-bomb their poor bees with a variety of toxic substances, even if they're not cleared for use in this country.
As I said in the thread, there are moves afoot to licence Coumaphos (which is a really toxic organophosphate) for use against small-hive beetle - I am convinced that given half a chance there'd be people using it this season against varroa if they could get their hands on it! (which is a petrifying thought!)
 
No - but organophosphates were mentioned and I was commenting on that...not necessarily Apivar!!! I don't tend to 'quote' the reference as it makes posts way too long, so simply because it comes behind an apivar comment doesn't mean I am commenting on that post
 
NB New Beeks

New Beeks take note.

This thread was started with about the first post I ever made. I was very new to beekeeping then. I knew even less than I do now, and had heard of (but knew nothing about) apivar. I asked what I thought was a naive, silly, newboy question. Little did I know that the debate would still be raging more than a year later!

But it just goes to show that this forum is populated with seriously knowledgeable people - some of whom have strong views...

... and that is what makes it so much fun, and so educative.

So if you think you have a silly question to ask, don't hesitate: we will all learn from the answers.
 

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