Whether to vape with oxalic acid after completion of Apivar (Amitraz)?

[user 20297]

you are just picking the words that suit you, big difference between multiple treatments which a few on here conduct (can't see it recommended) and the three/four treatments which most recommend

Whilst discussing their own multiple applications or when suggesting that someone else should administer multiple applications of oxalic vapour, haven't seen anyone here being careful to add the disclaimer, "I don't recommend that you do this"
I'm directly quoting the same expert that @JamezF earlier gave us another link to us towards. I also gave the link to the entire article so that anyone can easily see everything in context.
At what point beyond three/four applications does David Evans consider that applications become multiple? It would be useful to know, and you seem to know his mind. How many "on here" constitute a few? Unlike the "Doc", you're being vague. I think your interpretation of this is just the one that suits you.

 

[blackcloud]

Cant we all just get along?

Perhaps use fungus instead.

 

[user 20297]

Cant we all just get along?

Perhaps use fungus instead.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It doesn’t appear to be working in some places anyway.

exactly

 

[JamezF]

to be honest, I'd have to be pretty desperate to have that anywhere near my bees

For what reason, out of interest? You believe other treatments are more efficacious?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For what reason, out of interest? You believe other treatments are more efficacious?

James

A) it's one of the more harsh chemical treatment available
b) Pyrethroid based
C) as with most of these chemical treatments, mites are developing resistance to it

 

[JamezF]

It doesn’t appear to be working in some places anyway.

I have no idea how one might go about arranging it, but that strikes me as something that warrants further investigation. I know there have been issues with Amitraz resistance in specific areas of the US, but if the same is happening in the UK then it would be good to know about it sooner or later. Equally, if there's something you're doing wrong as regards the treatment process (though I can't see how -- it's not complicated) then you're almost certainly not the only one and perhaps better instructions are required.

James

 

[JamezF]

In the closing summary of his recent blog posting: Repeated oxalic acid vaporisation - The Apiarist David Evans shows some scepticism about the repeated use of oxalic vaping as is often recommended to be used; eg. on this forum. He also points out that he finds that Apivar is better at reducing Varroa levels. So, effectively, maybe he agrees with @Amari 's club chairman....or maybe it's the other way round.

"Repeated oxalic acid vaporisation is regularly proposed as the solution to Varroa but I’m certainly not confident that the data is there to support this claim."

My reading of that post is that he doesn't believe the evidence is there to support the assertion that repeated OA vapourisation achieves a sufficient reduction in mite levels if the colony is rearing brood. He doesn't appear to have an issue with it if there's no brood and he's not saying that it definitely doesn't work (well enough) when there is brood, nor that some people won't find it works for them, just that the experimental evidence that there is doesn't appear to suggest that repeated OA treatments of a colony with brood achieves the reduction in mite levels that is generally considered desirable. I'd suggest that he's also making an observation that more research really needs to be done on OA treatment of colonies with brood and expressing surprise that it hasn't already happened given how widespread the practice already is.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have no idea how one might go about arranging it, but that strikes me as something that warrants further investigation. I know there have been issues with Amitraz resistance in specific areas of the US, but if the same is happening in the UK then it would be good to know about it sooner or later. Equally, if there's something you're doing wrong as regards the treatment process (though I can't see how -- it's not complicated) then you're almost certainly not the only one and perhaps better instructions are required.

James

Pete Little reported resistance in his apiaries. I’ve had a quick look through his Twitter feed but couldn’t find the conversation he was having.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pete Little reported resistance in his apiaries. I’ve had a quick look through his Twitter feed but couldn’t find the conversation he was having.

@Hivemaker2
Can you throw any light on this at all?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I can't find any reference to this sort of information from LASI

Looking through my notes - it was actually a discussion with Prof. Ratneieks when he gave a talk at one of my local BKA's

he's also making an observation that more research really needs to be done on OA treatment of colonies with brood and expressing surprise that it hasn't already happened given how widespread the practice already is.

It was at the same talk that he blankly refused to even contemplate experimenting with multiple application, so vehemently that at one point we expected him to cover his ears and sing 'lalalalala'

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pete Little reported resistance in his apiaries. I’ve had a quick look through his Twitter feed but couldn’t find the conversation he was having.

I think he also mentioned it on here, I'm sure that's where I picked it up from him

 

[Swarm]

It's all hearsay unless there is published data.

 

[JamezF]

Pete Little reported resistance in his apiaries. I’ve had a quick look through his Twitter feed but couldn’t find the conversation he was having.

That's a bit of a concern given that I'm barely a mile from the edge of Exmoor

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think he also mentioned it on here, I'm sure that's where I picked it up from him

Well sometimes anecdotal evidence has to be sufficient. It was with that in mind that having given five colonies Apivar because I found an in date packet I didn't want to waste (got it for a neighbour last year then they decided they didn't want it) I checked the drop with OAV after I removed the strips and I was still getting a significant mite drop.
I'll not be using it again