Apivar

[thedeaddiplomat]

Has anyone used Apivar (as used in France) for their hives? Any views?

 

[Brosville]

I wouldn't use the damned stuff any more than I'd use Zyklon Bee.... Amitraz is a filthy poison, and in the pet world is known to "include a possible severe allergic reaction, seizures and cancer" when used on dogs........
To put this toxic substance anywhere near a product or insect that is involved in producing food should be an imprisonable offence! (If not shooting on sight!)
Criminal lunacy of the highest order........

 

[RoofTops]

It has also been linked to cancer in some French beekeepers. Stick to apiguard or formic acid.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Apparently it interferes with the mite's nervous system. might interfere with ours as well.

http://www.apivar.co.nz/information.htm

 

[gavin]

Do you have a source for that Rooftops? Apivar is being talked about as a possible treatment for EFB-exposed bees with Varroa problems while the bees are at the heather, to help them limp through to shook swarming next spring.

all the best

Gavin

 

[Hivemaker.]

Richard ball, (bee inspector) for defra, was recomending the use of this in 2005,unofficially of course.

 

[RoofTops]

It was a bee inspector last year who told me about the cancer link. I am not sure if it is any worse than some of the other chemicals used in agriculture but the fact that it has not been given EU wide approval may be significant. But no doubt if used correctly with the right PPE it will be safe enough. Oxalic acid can cause kidney stones but that doesn't stop us using it.

 

[Brosville]

"I am not sure if it is any worse than some of the other chemicals used in agriculture" is an horrifically frightening statement - it means a passive acceptance of the fact that we, the countryside, and all wildlife are constantly blanket-bombed by thousands of toxic chemicals........
I COULD launch into a diatribe about the likely dangers, but as that'll make me about as popular as a pork chop at a bar mitzvah, I'll merely remark that despite the makers of such things citing "science" to "prove" their safety, you'll find that it is virtually impossible to predict "cocktail" effects, trying to predict the effects of just a few chemicals would choke any supercomputer........ the truly scientific thing to do would be to withdraw all of them until they are proven safe in sealed laboratories......
Although the vastly rich and powerful chemical lobby will do their best to deny it, there are always alternative ways to solve such problems, usually through good husbandry, or use of safe, organic substances, but if it doesn't result in vast profits for "big Agrochem" it'll get little credence.....
If that doesn't worry beekeepers, then perhaps simple economics may be a good argument - the rate "chemicals" are being lobbed at bees, honey will soon be unsaleable, being seen as being nothing more than a medium for the transport of deadly carcinogenic residues......

 

[RoofTops]

I wasn't being complacent. My point was there are enough chemicals being used in beekeeping without introducing new ones. And of course we are surrounded by chemicals in our envoronment - but that should not be a reason for adding to the fug.

 

[JCBrum]

... an horrifically frightening statement constantly blanket-bombed by thousands of toxic chemicals ........

... a diatribe about the likely dangers ...

... impossible to predict "cocktail" effects ...

... predict the effects of just a few chemicals would choke any supercomputer........

... withdraw all of them until they are proven safe in sealed laboratories ...

... the vastly rich and powerful chemical lobby will do their best to deny it ...

... honey will soon be unsaleable ...

... a medium for the transport of deadly carcinogenic residues ...

I can see that these matters are very worrying for you Brosville, and that you are greatly concerned.

Have you tried talking through some of these issues with a group of friends perhaps ?

Sometimes the wider perspective of a collective view can help ?

 

[gavin]

Thanks Rooftops.

Brosville - I'd also like chemicals out of honey production and beekeeping. For the moment though, colonies will die if we do nothing. Which of the various poisons, organic and otherwise, do you think should be used to control Varroa?

Which of the 'safe, organic' treatments were you thinking of? Why are they safer? Oxalic, formic, thymol, they all have their own safety issues.

all the best

Gavin

 

[Brosville]

As you've noted, adding yet another deadly chemical to the bewildering array currently foisted off on bees is not a good idea, as to whether you look to thymol, oxalic or formic, I really don't know - but I'd certainly choose one of them over the products of Bayer any day (if I HAD to make that choice)
As to them being "safer", they have been around a helluva lot longer than Amitraz, and their dangers far better known and documented (hardly surprising as there's no chemical industry cover-ups about them as they're not patentable.....)
Although it was airily dismissed, there is a very real fear that the public WILL soon get wind of some of the visibly toxic chemicals that several "powers that be" are contemplating using....It's no secret that DEFRA is already muttering about licensing Coumaphos for use against small hive beetle........
Would YOU like to try flogging a product that the public believes is choc full of organophosphates?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Seems that cinnamon sprinkled along the ends of the top bars may be effective in preventing small hive beetle,interesting.

 

[Brosville]

Interesting - not heard of that one! - mind you, there's a lot to be said for naturally occurring remedies - I've certainly heard of Diatomaceous earth being used, and there's a young lady in the 'states having great success using hydrogen peroxide in combating small hive beetle......
I gather top-bar-hives, by dint of their construction, are particularly good at not welcoming small hive beetles, as they are not full of "nooks and crannies" like Langstroths and similar
Probably better not to mention natural remedies, or good husbandry as a cure for these problems, can't go doing those nice people from Bayer out of their rightful dues..........

 

[Hivemaker.]

Just a thread i was reading on beesource,garlic and sugar was the other substance mentioned.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=452639#post452639

 

[Brosville]

what is so frustrating is that there are probably perfectly good, safe and effective cures out there for all of the ills that ail bees, but because there is no commercial advantage in finding cures in cinnamon, garlic or icing sugar (because they're not patentable), there'll be no "official" work done in proving it's efficacy, and working out the best way to treat, except by enthusiastic amateurs....... in the meantime, we'll end up with varroa immune to yet another chemical toxin, and small hive beetle thriving on sheep dip.......

 

[Hivemaker.]

And no farmers left to look after the sheep,cos they all died from organophosphate poisoning,which may not be such a bad thing,being as they are the one's who spray most of the crap around the countryside in the first place.

 

[skydragon]

To bring the thread back on topic...

has anyone here used Apivar yet?

Where did you buy it from?

 

[MMJ100]

Yes I have used it. I am in Alpes Maritimes in France.

Last year I used it. I have just applied it to my 5 hives (actually 4 and a Nuc).

I notice no problems yet.
Althought, from one hive there are a lot (50/100) of bees outside the back of the hive on the ground and hanging from the understide of the hive. The dead bees in frount of the hive all seem to be deformed. The bees under and at the back are walking and seem almost unable to do anything.

Most odd

 

[MuswellMetro]

so what's the legal position on sale of honey if you use imported Apivar

i use the DEFRA form to record hive treatments like apiguard , what are the issues if i use a veterinary prescription treatment without the appropriate vet prescription

http://www.kentbee.com/kbka/bm~doc/veteninary_medicine_administration_record.pdf

i would have thought trading standard could take to to the cleaners if they find you have source a prescription treatment from overseas and used it illegally on your hives