Anyone ever use a steel 45gallon drum to boil frames?

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John_W

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Anyone ever used one for boiling frames?

I don't have thousands of frames to clean, but I would like to be able to boil 10-20 (BS - 14x12s) in one go. Having seen the prices of stainless steel pots large enough to take frames and the fact its no something done regularly.

Wondered if anyone else had thought of using a 45 gallon steel drum for the purpose?

Was thinking of getting one cut down, from full depth. And heating it over a gas boiling ring.
 
:iagree: would be expensive with gas but are you somewhere isolated enough to be able to heat it over an open fire (outside)?
 
Wondered if anyone else had thought of using a 45 gallon steel drum for the purpose?

.

150 litres or about

Yes, our guys here cut often drum and make a fire under the half.

Tens of frames. .... You may do 10 frame bunch and handle them all the time in those units.

Make a fire base fom bricks and burn some waste wood under the water drum.

When water starts to boil, the cleaning process is quite fast.

If you make that job, it would good to have some other guys that you may boil about 200 frames together.
 
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dont boil the frames as they twist and warp and muck up. what i would do is stick in 10 gallons into the bottom of the fifty gallon tank and sit it ontop of a couple of concrete blocks and then use cut up pallets to burn a fire under it.
inside the barrel stand a metal crate or a crate of sorts we used to use a standard beer crate made from plastic, any way when its going slap the frames and the lid on and it wil steam the frames clear, if your going to boil use a barrel cut in half and dip the frames rather than soak boil the frame, once all the frames are done just let it cool the wax will be ontop of the water with a layer of crud under it,
 
Cut down.

I was thinking of having cut down about half way, and dipping as in Petes suggestion.
As for heating, propane boiling ring 9kw will heat it up without too much trouble. But I could if needed have it over a fire pit.

Its just a case of exploring the most efficient, time and money wise option for cleaning up frames and recovering some wax.
 
the best for time effort and cost is a wall paper striper from tool station for £30

put the frames in a dustbin ontop of a crate to keep them out of the melted wax, fill it up and switch it on, wrap an old blanket or dust sheets around the bin have a brew come back in 30 mins all done reload wall papper stripper and the frames go again, i can fit 20 frames in a large wheelie bin
 
Hi John, I've been boiling up frames for over 20 yrs and they don't go out of shape unless you stack them wrong. I used a steel pot, but now I use a burco boiler, you can get 25 litre tea urns that boil up frames nicely and if you use caustic soda it will strip them clean. Before this lot on here go ape, you have to wear goggles & thick rubber gloves & don't breath in the steam. You can of course just use normal washing soda, just takes a wee bit longer. I got my boiler on the auction site ending in bay! and you see them at boot fairs about £30
 
burco..

Bees4u, will those 25ltr burcos take 14x12 frames?
Not too worried about super frames, bits the brood frames I would like to boil up and clean.
 
No they wont take a 14 x 12 . Well not more than 1 at a time . Go with the cut down drum , washing soda and a fire under it or hire a ring and gas from your local hire shop .
 
Bees4u, will those 25ltr burcos take 14x12 frames?
Not too worried about super frames, bits the brood frames I would like to boil up and clean.
HI John, I would think so, but not 100% sure, you could always measure frame first & check size before you buy. A friend of mine also said that you can buy these flat fish boiler things that the chef's use, they are made of steel & should suit.
 
I boil frames, or at least somewhere around 90 - 100 degrees normally. I don't have any warp or twist. I bought a custom stainless steel tank to my spec. I think it cost around £100 - you just have to find the right fabricator.

I power mine from electric. When you look at the cost of electric to heat it, it's insignificant. Additionally, I didn't want all the hassle of building fires, and smoke and all the mess.

Adam
 
Will cost you a lot to heat that up to boiling.

Here's my maths. I use two electric kettle elements, which take around 10 amps each.

235V x 20 amps = 4700 watts, or 4.7KW.


I'll assume electricity is 14p per KWH. A 13Kg cylinder of gas is around 15p per KWH and 50Kg of Wood logs is 10p per KWH (Yes, I know you can drive round in your car and get some out a skip, using fuel and getting it for 'free' after your time, depreciation on the car and fuel is added in it's probably not quite 'free').

It takes 3 or probably 4 hours to come up to temperature so £2.63 for a boil using electric. £2.82 for gas, and £1.88 for wood. Even if the wood was genuinely free, I still wouldn't bother for £2.63 - which is pretty cheap for the my boiler per go, which is 64cm cubed given it's smoke free.

Adam
 
boil... is this a dip, or for how long.

I bought one of those Lidl jam makers for £30 and have not looked back...

it makes my sugar syrup, a 25 litre jerry can at a time...

it is big enough to take a 30lb bucket of honey and will run at 35 degrees...

If it is hot enough to make jam, it should be hot enough to boil frames..

:hat:
 
i would use a smaller vessel to boil water to generate steam to go into said oil drum via a pipe welded / soldered on and would lag the oil drum with some loft lagging i had hanging around.
 
Steamer..

I made my own steaming setup for the moment.
Still wish to be able to boil the frames, but for the immiediate it is working well as I had brood frames to render down.

I bought a £28 wall paper steemer, and got some off cuts of ply etc from a local hard were store. Made a roof and floor. Covered the floor in tin foil. Feed the steam in via the roof and placed a wire mesh between the floor piece and the brood box. The first time I ran it, i put an empty super underneath to give space for the cocoons to gather, but I think its giving the system too much air volume to heat and so its taking a while.

Next time will do without the super.

I will looking at a boiling tank. I will have to see if any of the local fabricators can make me one. If i can steam the wax out and them boil them. It should mean I get nice clean frames.

This is all down to the fact, I have two colonies who are absalute monsters for properlis.. I really should harvest the stuff. As they gather it by the tonne.. brandew frames are orrange within days of going in. They love to stick everything, bar the vents in the roof up.
 
boil... is this a dip, or for how long.

I boil them for about 5-30 minutes. I normally have it full (80 frames+) when I start heating it up, otherwise you are heating excess water and it over flows when you put the frames in. Once I've cleaned those 80 frames which have been in for several hours, I wedge another set it, and carry on brushing them off, so probably 5 minutes is the shortest time they are boiled for, and several hours at the longest.

I boil frames even after I've rendered the wax in a steam extractor. I find a steam extractor is not enough to get frames completely clean - it gets the wax off, but they are still covered in propolis. Of course, the steam softens the propolis, but I don't like all that effort scraping it subsequently. Chucking them in a tank of water and soda crystals is much easier. When they come out, I simply give them a light brush to get any remaining crud off, and leave them to dry.

Adam
 
Here's my maths. I use two electric kettle elements, which take around 10 amps each.

235V x 20 amps = 4700 watts, or 4.7KW.


I'll assume electricity is 14p per KWH. A 13Kg cylinder of gas is around 15p per KWH and 50Kg of Wood logs is 10p per KWH (Yes, I know you can drive round in your car and get some out a skip, using fuel and getting it for 'free' after your time, depreciation on the car and fuel is added in it's probably not quite 'free').

It takes 3 or probably 4 hours to come up to temperature so £2.63 for a boil using electric. £2.82 for gas, and £1.88 for wood. Even if the wood was genuinely free, I still wouldn't bother for £2.63 - which is pretty cheap for the my boiler per go, which is 64cm cubed given it's smoke free.

Adam

Isn't standarg single phase from UK 230V?
 

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