Advice welcome

[sharonh]

Where does one begin. I'm new to beekeeping,and only have my hive since Aug last Year, so this Year would really be my first full season.
Everything went great from then until recently.
My Queen was marked and clipped and colony expanded great. I inspected the hive once a week. A few weeks ago, July 17th to be exact, did my normal inspection, this was brood and a half, a lot of bees present, found several sealed and unsealed queen cells but no queen, so annoyed that i could have missed these the week before, but hive so full of bees that not surprised i did.
All i could do was re examine the following day to make sure that the queen was definitely gone and no sign of her.
This is what i did then, and do not know whether i was right or wrong.
I brought down a new hive, and i took a frame with a sealed queen sell, and open charged queen cell, which were both on the face of a brood frame. I put this frame and a second frame with food and sealed brood into the new hive. I moved the original hive a meter to the right with entrance facing different direction and new hive in original hives position, i did this July 18th. the old hive now moved, i left just one sealed Queen cell and empty cups. I removed the 2 supers and put them on the new hive as the flying bees would all go to old position now being new hive. Was this the right thing to do?

 

[Queens59]

Sounds like you have done an artificial swarm when your bees were attempting supercedure. I can see no harm in that, but you could have simply removed all but 1 queen cell and left them to it.

As it is in time they will hatch a queen and she will start to lay - now to be patient!!
Good Luck

 

[BeeNice]

Sounds like you have done an artificial swarm when your bees were attempting supercedure. I can see no harm in that, but you could have simply removed all but 1 queen cell and left them to it.

As it is in time they will hatch a queen and she will start to lay - now to be patient!!
Good Luck

I think you did the correct thing, and yes be patient, but not sure it was supercedure though. Just swarming. How old was your queen? had she reduce laying? The second years is always the one that you really start how to be a beekeeper.

 

[sharonh]

Funny thing is, i left the old hive to one side for a week exactly, moved it to the other side of the new hive just Thursday gone to deplete it of all foragers to get them into the new one.Next day Friday i went to look to see were there many bees left around old hive, but only the odd one flying in and out. The new hive lots at entrance, then all of a sudden, the whole place came alive with bees and the noise got loader and loader with bees flying in a frenzy. the noise was incredible.
I got a little scared, but ran up to the house for my bee suit. It continued for a while and i watched to see what was happening and where they were going to go, then glanced at the new hive and it was black with bees, then the blanket of bees got smaller and smaller as they all went in. I'm so confused on this, i don't understand. Since this, which was last friday around 1pm, bees are all around the entrance and don't seem to be bringing in pollen, sitting quiet, the odd bee flying in and out with alot of other nearly blocking entrance. Dont want to disturb it in-case a virgin has hatched. How long should i wait now?

 

[oliver90owner]

Several queen cells seems more likely to be swarming than supercedure - were they on/towards the bottom of the frames?

If so thy likely swarmed and returned to the hive after losing the queen and you did not quite finish the job but may well have got away with it.

You should have checked the frames for any extra queen cells (if there were eggs or larvae under three days old in either hive at the time of splitting). You should have left two sealed cells in the parent colony (a single sealed cell could be a duff one) and should have swapped the parent colony to the other side of the original site to deplete it of flying bees a day before expected emergence (to avoid a cast).

As you only left a single cell and there were likely no eggs or young larvae and perhaps did not know (by observation) when the swarm was thrown you likely did good enough to get by on most occasions.

Hive direction is normally left 'as-is', too. but it matters not if all else went OK.

You were close, but remeber the above for next time when you will be able to do it right.

Oh, and btw, what did you inspect for the previous week? If was a weekly anti-swarm check, you clearly failed. Lucky your queen was clipped (with clipped queens you can easily leave the routine inspections ten days and still avoid losing a swarm as they would only go when the new queen had emerged).

You could heve left one open queen cell in the colony and not increased, but that is a risk (all eggs in the one basket, so to speak, with just the one colony). Two colonies is better for management than one (and you could have easily increased to three if you had so desired).

Hope that gives you something to think about for the future.

RAB

 

[itma]

The new hive lots at entrance, then all of a sudden, the whole place came alive with bees and the noise got loader and loader with bees flying in a frenzy. the noise was incredible.
I got a little scared, but ran up to the house for my bee suit. It continued for a while and i watched to see what was happening and where they were going to go, then glanced at the new hive and it was black with bees, then the blanket of bees got smaller and smaller as they all went in

What you saw was likely a mating flight.
Sometimes it can look like a failed swarm attempt.

 

[sharonh]

Only got her last Year but was told that because last Year was such a bad Year with rain that some Queens might not have got fully mated. It was brood and half,a big colony, but when i found the cells, sealed and unsealed, some were on the face of main brood frame,a sealed and charged unsealed, so that was the frame i put in the new hive along with a frame of food and brood with no other cells. In the original, there were alot of cups on bottom of frames in half brood chamber and one sealed on face of half brood so just left them there. The old hive has depleted now of foragers, so have fed to keep them going.
What i hope happens, is that i will end up with a queen in both, keep the best one and unite them. When i found all these cells, i did notice some sealed drones that were in worker cells so i think that my queen ran out, so maybe didn't get mated properly last year.The only thing now is that i don't think there are any beekeepers within ten miles of me, so am worried would new queens get mated

 

[itma]

... In the original, there were alot of cups on bottom of frames in half brood chamber and one sealed on face of half brood so just left them there. The old hive has depleted now of foragers....
...
The only thing now is that i don't think there are any beekeepers within ten miles of me, so am worried would new queens get mated

"The old hive" - lots of cells, now depleted of bees. You have pretty definitely lost many bees with 'cast' swarms, as a result of allowing lots of QCs to develop and princesses to emerge.

Queens are extraordinarily good at finding mates.
However, if your location really is isolated from other bee colonies, your regional beekeeping association would likely be rather excited at the possibility of an isolated site for controlled mating, and you then would have no difficulty in being kept supplied with rather good queens ...

 

[sharonh]

Thanks so much for advice, the frame i removed and put in new hive had a sealed and charged open queen cell on the center of main brood chamber frame, then in the upper half chamber, there were alot of cups on bottom of the frames with a charged open cell on face of frame so left them there. that sell is now sealed in the depleted colony. I hope to maybe get a Queen in both hives now, but as late in the season i may have to rid one queen and unite as depleted colony may not have enough bees to be strong enough for winter. I know i failed but all this is so new to me being my first Year. The hive was so full of bees that id say they covered a lot of cells from me seeing them .Another problem i have is i suffer real bad hay fever, and even though i take anti histamines, sometimes they are not great. id be in my bee suit, hive open and then eyes streaming that much i cant even see, and cant even wipe them. I heard alright that two hives would be better than having one, as then you always have a back up, and if this all happened in spring, i would leave the two to build up but is it not too late, as by the time new virgin queens get mated and start laying the season is gone.

 

[Carmel]

Hi Sharon,
Where in Ireland are you?

 

[sharonh]

Hi Sharon,
Where in Ireland are you?

Hi Carmel, Im near a little village called Moyvore, Co Westmeath. The place is called Forgney, between Ballymahon Co Longford and Moyvore Co Westmeath

 

[sharonh]

Thanks Beenice, i hope my bees will be ok, and that a virgin Queen gets mated now. How long will i wait now as its been two weeks now since left the sealed and open charged queen cell in the new hive. The bees are very busy today and bringing in loads of pollen, where the past few days, they just seemed to be sitting all over the entrance not doing much. They looked depressed but today they are busy busy busy, looks more normal.

 

[Erichalfbee]

10 days from when your Queen emerged....if you're lucky.
Last year people were reporting up to six weeks...........because of the weather

 

[BeeNice]

Thanks Beenice, i hope my bees will be ok, and that a virgin Queen gets mated now. How long will i wait now as its been two weeks now since left the sealed and open charged queen cell in the new hive. The bees are very busy today and bringing in loads of pollen, where the past few days, they just seemed to be sitting all over the entrance not doing much. They looked depressed but today they are busy busy busy, looks more normal.

You need to leave well alone, pollen can be a good sign of a laying queen. Have a look at your books, work out when the queen should of emerged, should start laying and be patient, the bees will sort things out for themselves. The reason I won't give times for looking in is so you make up you own mind. They are your bees, watch the hive entrance. You won't need to go in unless you really have too. When you do decide, look for eggs, not the queen and make sure the stores are being 'stored'. With a late queen and lack of foragers you may have to feed? Good luck. Steven

 

[sharonh]

Thanks Steven, much appreciated, will keep
an eye on it and see what happens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hivemaker.]

10 days from when your Queen emerged....if you're lucky.
Last year people were reporting up to six weeks...........because of the weather

Many during the recent hot weather have been on mating flights in less than a week from emerging.

 

[Carmel]

Hi Sharon,
The Midlands Association is not far from you. If your a member someone will mentor and call out to you. Like you I got my 1st colony in August last year, I now have 3 strong colonies, but I would have none if not for my mentor. The books only teach you so much...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Many during the recent hot weather have been on mating flights in less than a week from emerging.

Thanks HM for that bon mot
Such a difference from last year!

 

[itma]

Funny thing is, i left the old hive to one side for a week exactly, moved it to the other side of the new hive just Thursday gone ... Next day Friday ... all of a sudden, the whole place came alive with bees and the noise got loader and loader with bees flying in a frenzy. the noise was incredible.
... It continued for a while ... then glanced at the new hive and it was black with bees, then the blanket of bees got smaller and smaller as they all went in. ... How long should i wait now?

So, a week and a day after your split you saw a mating flight from one hive.
And the day after tomorrow, that will be a week ago.

Ask yourself, what are you going to do differently, based on what you see?

In another 10 days or so, weekend after the one coming, I'd be hoping that if I looked in that hive, I'd see some sealed worker brood - rather than drone brood!
Based on that, I'd start planning for their future.
They need drawn comb, and a bit of stores - I'm not clear what you have given each box. You need to supervise and (if necessary) direct their efforts and feed if they are getting short - but not so as to block up the comb so that Q has nowhere to lay!

 

[sharonh]

Thanks Itma, the new hive has lots of foragers as depleted from original hive so didn't feed these. The other hive I have fed them as not many foraging bees left in it but a lot of bees in the hive