Advice for a council tennant

[Ms AJB]

As a council tennant I dutifully contacted my local authority asking permission to keep bees in my back garden. Permission was granted for me to keep 1 hive back in January.
With this under my belt, both my partner and I attended the local bee keepers course (8x theory 4x practical - starting this week!), built our national hive (under supervision), have bought all the necessary basic kit, made alterations to the garden (which is approx 150ft x 25ft) by adding netting so that the hive is surrounded by at least a six foot barrier.

We spoke to the neighbours, who all seemed fine, and expect a never ending supply of honey.

I get home today to be greated with a letter from my local authority revoking my permission as an issue has been raised and as they have a duty of care to all parties, need to investigate fully.

I have spoken to them and have agreed to put all my courses, insurance and anything else I can think in a letter for my defence in keeping bees.

Has anyone had or heard of a similar experience?

I have already spoken to the chairman of our local beekeeping association who has given me sound advice in detailing the course, netting, insurance etc but has anyone got any further advice (apart from grabbing the nearest swarm and shoving it through the offending neighbours letter box!!!)

Very disheartened

Ms AJB

 

[Tom Bick]

No direct advice or have a similar situation to advise on but as your local authority are saying they need to investigate fully and they may just come down in your favour.

I know it’s a worry but treat this situation as a stumbling block and not a brick wall you will encounter plenty of stumbling blocks to come and sleepless nights to when you get the bees.

I wish you well look just play it straight and be honest you are doing it right with the course, insurance and a member of an association.

Give a bit of thought to a plan B a site that you can move your bees in the event you have to or even an out apiary either way a plan B is a very good thing to have in the bag.

Good look

 

[Dishmop]

My local council told me that there wasnt anything that said I couldnt keep bees...........
I never asked them... but they came and saw me because somebody complained that they poo'd on their car.....
So you havent actually got any bees yet? So what grounds does anybody have for complaint? Bloody Alfred Hitchcock film I suppose....

I would ask them to show you the rules that say you cant keep them....
However... it does all boil down to the fact that you are their tenant etc etc and should really ask them permission before you can do anything.......

Recently we have new people on one side and they have a toddler. I went and told the mother and she said she had no problems.... said she hadnt even noticed them... Some leave my garden but they fly over hers without stopping... What you must also realise is that many local civil servants make things up as they come across a situation which is new to them....

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

I have not had a similar experience.

But... I would be inclined first to respond to the Council asking precisely what issue had been raised, by whom and when (even if they chose not to give this information, it might put them on notice that you are not going easily to give in). I would then contact my town/parish and county councillors describing what I had done and spent in order to become a responsible beekeeper.

I would also (and I hope I might be forgiven for suggesting it on this forum - I promise immediately to wash my mouth out with soap) contact the BBKA and ask if they have heard of similar experiences elsewhere, and if so how these had been resolved.

Finally, drawing on my previous life, I would contact HM Navy and order up a gunboat (if they still happen to have one)!

 

[Poly Hive]

Alternatively treat it as a narrow escape and go looking for an out apiary.

Out in the fields away from bothersome neighbours think how free of worry you will be, as I| am.

If a neighbour has already objected and gone to the lengths of writing a letter are they going to be supportive in the near future if you get council backing or are there likely to be "issues"? Bit of a no brainer really.

PH

 

[Midland Beek]

Take it as a blessing in disguise. Get an out apiary so you can mess about with your bees without danger of anyone getting stung. You were really asking too much from your Housing Officer, ie. that he/she should be a knowledgable and enlightened person able to make informed judgements.

The way I would have done it is to have not mentioned a word about bees to anyone. Join the BBKA so as to get public liability insurance. And then if your landlord were to have raised any concerns, your first line of retort could have been: "We are responsible beekeepers and we have public liability insurance, because we, as the owner of the bees, are the liable party". With bees, the owner of the bees is liable. Doesn't matter on whose land and whether or not you have got permission ... the owner of the bees is liable. (In joining the BBKA you get Third Party public liability insurance).

I really do not think they could claim that in owning bees you have been in breach of your tenancy agreement.

 

[Dishmop]

We spoke to the neighbours, who all seemed fine,

That was probably the mistake....

 

[BBG]

Alternatively treat it as a narrow escape and go looking for an out apiary.

Out in the fields away from bothersome neighbours think how free of worry you will be, as I| am.

If a neighbour has already objected and gone to the lengths of writing a letter are they going to be supportive in the near future if you get council backing or are there likely to be "issues"? Bit of a no brainer really.

PH

The less you tell people the better. If you tell them where you keep your bees, they will do sightseeing trips to gossip about.

Best of luck

 

[Silly Bee]

As a few have said. Find an out apiary, there is sure to be a farmer in your area who would welcome you to site a hive.

 

[Winker]

My mate next door has not spoken to me in 4 months now, since i told him i was getting bees...We were, i thought good friends!

 

[roymichaeldean]

Out Apiary

Hi

I would definitely try and find an out apiary, Cambridge is surrounded by wonderful countryside, even look at getting a Council Allotment, and as you are a member of the local bee club ask them about out apiaries that they have.
3 good options, try them all.

regards

roy

 

[Dishmop]

My mate next door has not spoken to me in 4 months now, since i told him i was getting bees...We were, i thought good friends!

Neighbours are very rarely friends...

Bloke who used to live next to me saw me making my hive last year....I thought I had better tell him what I was making and he said "oh... I dont like bees"

(... and I dont like your bloody Harley starting up at 7 o'clock on a Sunday morning....)

While we were talking there was a few small bumbles on a bush...... I said "look... they are Ok as long as you dont frighten them." and poked a couple of the bees with my finger.....
He used to spend a fair bit of time in his garden with friends BBQing etc.and I never had any complaints... because they fly straight over without stopping.

 

[Ms AJB]

Thank you too all that have taken the time to reply.

An out apairy is not an option for us at the moment as, however strange it may sound, but we were looking forward to observing our bees whenever the mood took us.
If the bug really took hold that that would be something to concider, but we do not intend to do this for commercial gain just pure, self indulgient satisfaction.

I'm not giving up without a fight. I have my suspicions as to which neighbour raised the concerns, and she is the type of person who is not happy unless she is meddling/interfering in other peoples business.

We have always maintained that if a neighbour complained then we would give it our all, I just thought I'd already have the dam bees before one was made!!!

As Tom Bick said, it could come down in our favour. If all else fails I may call on the services of thedeaddiplomat and ask him to call in a few favours

 

[Dishmop]

As Tom Bick said, it could come down in our favour.

It could well happen. As has been said... an issue has been raised and the council has a duty to look into it...... Is your suspect also a council tenant?

Personally I still dont think that you needed to ask the councils permission to start with..... All I can find out is that you need permission to keep them on most council allotments...


I would email your local councillor and MP.

or just get your bees anyway and see if anybody notices...

I mean.. you couldnt stop a swarm thet arrived could you.. and you didnt know they were there...

 

[Teemore]

What does your tenancy agreement have to say about pets and livestock? There might not be any reference to seeking permission from the Council but on the other hand there may be some sort of restricitve covenant tied in to the tenancy agreement. I think you took the responsible course of action by informing the Council and also by booking onto the course.

I'd nearly be inclined to stir the pot in this instance: have you considered setting your empty hive up in the garden and leaving it there for a while? Other forum members have left empty hives on allotments to draw out complainants and then shown them up by demonstrating that the hives were empty......

 

[xgeordie]

I'd nearly be inclined to stir the pot in this instance: have you considered setting your empty hive up in the garden and leaving it there for a while? Other forum members have left empty hives on allotments to draw out complainants and then shown them up by demonstrating that the hives were empty......

Not sure what that is supposed to achieve.

I would think very carefully about this - even if you start out with gentle bees they can requeen themselves and suddenly become very aggressive.

Think about where you will site the hives - bee droppings on neighbours washing may be a problem. They will also need a water supply - your neighbours my not want bees buzzing around their pond.

Little things often escalate into big ones and you don't want to start a war! Personally I'd look for an out apiary, but good luck!

 

[Dishmop]

Not sure what that is supposed to achieve.

I would think very carefully about this - even if you start out with gentle bees they can requeen themselves and suddenly become very aggressive.

Think about where you will site the hives - bee droppings on neighbours washing may be a problem. They will also need a water supply - your neighbours my not want bees buzzing around their pond.

Little things often escalate into big ones and you don't want to start a war! Personally I'd look for an out apiary, but good luck!

The discussion isnt about bees getting aggressive or using neighbours ponds, which probably get used by any bees in the area anyway...

I agree with Teemore. I would put a hive in the garden,, and then proudly tell the suspect neighbour/s "Well, I've finally got my hive"
The idea being that suspect neighbour/s will start screaming that they have been stung and terrorised by bees..... complain to the council, who then pay a visit and you show them...........an empty beehive.... therefore indicating to the council person that the complainant is a tosser........
of the highest order...

 

[xgeordie]

The discussion isnt about bees getting aggressive or using neighbours ponds, which probably get used by any bees in the area anyway...

I agree with Teemore. I would put a hive in the garden,, and then proudly tell the suspect neighbour/s "Well, I've finally got my hive"
The idea being that suspect neighbour/s will start screaming that they have been stung and terrorised by bees..... complain to the council, who then pay a visit and you show them...........an empty beehive.... therefore indicating to the council person that the complainant is a tosser........
of the highest order...

I know you have already fallen out with your neighbours Dishmop. Are you happy with this situation? Trying to make them look like "tossers" is not going to help.

My points are relevant if neighbours are already anti bee. Bee poo all over the washing or worse, a sting to one of their kids and things could turn nasty.

I know some keepers have bees in their garden with no problem. Depends on the situation - but I would not trust my own bees if I had neighbours close on each side and they had already objected.

 

[Adam]

An out apairy is not an option for us at the moment as, however strange it may sound, but we were looking forward to observing our bees whenever the mood took us. If the bug really took hold that that would be something to concider, but we do not intend to do this for commercial gain just pure, self indulgient satisfaction.

Many (like me) hobbiests keep there bees in out-apiaries due to limitations on gardens. I don't think you'd find it that simple as to look in them "whenever the mood takes us". Firstly you have extra considerations in gardens relating to neighbours, are they out gardening, mowing the lawn, strimming the weeds etc, trimming the hedge etc. Is the colony queenless etc etc. None of these are issues in out-apiaries and you simply turn up and inspect the bees.

I find one of the pleasures out an out-apiary is exactly that, I just turn up whenever I want to inspect the bees. My friends in small gardens sometimes have to do early morning, or late evening inspections, to accomodate the neighbours etc.

Adam

 

[oliver90owner]

'Observing' to me means something considerably different to 'inspecting'.

Dependent on flight paths, positioning etc, it may even be possible to 'inspect' good natured bees without the neighbours even being aware of it. I have done it lots of times.

That said, I did not keep bees in my garden initially and any that are anything 'less than sociable' are removed to a distant field as soon as practicable.

A lot of new beeks just do not realise the trouble the bees could cause, not even necessarilydue to the temperament of the bees, either.

RAB