Adding an undrawn (second) super

[Do224]

I think I’ll soon need to add a second super to my hive (I’m intending to wait until they’re drawing the last two or three frames in the existing super).

The new super will be all foundation and I’m confused if I should put it above or below the existing super? Should I also move a frame of honey from the existing super to the new super to encourage them to draw the other frames?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Put it under the existing one if there is a flow.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

and if there's not a flow, there's probably no need of it.

 

[Do224]

So, always best underneath existing super? Or are there occasions when it’s best on top…

 

[Erichalfbee]

So, always best underneath existing super? Or are there occasions when it’s best on top…

Yes when you have five supers on and you are still doing brood inspections

 

[smok]

Im always mixing new supper with foundation.
one frame with honey ,one foundation,one honey,one foundation,etc.
in fact you mixing two supers
bees will be busy then,swarm season nearly in the end,and after that no need to look in the hive until honey harvest

 

[Amari]

So, always best underneath existing super? Or are there occasions when it’s best on top…

This subject comes up on the forum frequently. To my mind it's a good example of "there are very few rigid rules in beekeeping". I put the new super on top - saves unnecessary lifting of a heavy super - or three heavy supers! No tablets of stone here - experiment and find out which is best for you.

 

[Do224]

Yes when you have five supers on and you are still doing brood inspections

If you’re still doing brood inspections, wouldn’t that make it easy to put the super underneath? I’m clearly missing something, sorry…

 

[Chunky Plumpy]

@Erichalfbee I read this thread a day late it would appear. After a bit of a rocky start and subtle remedial actions, I was delighted to find my new colony working the outer most frames of the super yesterday but simply popped a 2nd on top.

Does it 'really' matter or is it one of those beekeeping debates with split opinions? I don't mean to sound dismissive, I'm anything but, it is just that I wonder if there is a definite downside to putting new supers on top?

If it was just less effective when it comes to honey yield then I'd be interested but not worried, if the bees are going to revolt then I'd be worried and like to know what a "revolt" might look like? Cheers, CP.

 

[Swarm]

You are trying to get your foundation drawn, it's generally a good idea to put foundation close to the brood nest, below existing supers. Bees don't like to be separated from their stores so will draw them out quickly.
Drawn comb is precious.

 

[Chunky Plumpy]

@Swarm , thanks for the quick reply, that's something I can certainly relate to.

No harm done, I'm sure I can simply swap them over when I inspect the brood which I need do anyway after some 'fun and games' at the outset. Cheers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If there is a flow on and they need the space why bother moving the other boxes. Super put on the potting shed roof two days ago is drawn and being filled.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Does it 'really' matter

good idea to put foundation close to the brood nest

Bees need 35C to draw wax and that temp. is most likely above the nest.
CP: is your crownboard open or closed?

 

[Chunky Plumpy]

Hi @ericbeaumont , I've not changed anything since my original post... work stopped play... so the 2nd super is still on top the first and the crownboard open; it has two rounded rectangle openings for those plastic one-way inserts.

I would imagine it's pretty warm still, but only by virtue of the weather so I might have gotten away with it being above for the moment. I'm hoping to complete a full inspection in the next day or two so shall see how they are getting on.

Must ask, is your question a leading question and under normal weather conditions is it likely the upper super would be cooler and therefore drawn more slowely? Cheers, CP.

 

[ericbeaumont]

crownboard open; it has two rounded rectangle openings for those plastic one-way inserts.

is it likely the upper super would be cooler and therefore drawn more slowely?

The open holes in your crownboard act as chimneys through which valuable nest heat is escaping. To accelerate wax production increase nest temperature by sealing the holes.

In truth, such continual loss of heat compromises a colony's aim to expend the minimum energy and fuel to keep the nest warm or cool throughout the year.

A crownboard with holes is really a multi-purpose board and plastic Porter bee escapes designed to fit the two holes are particularly pointless: they jam with propolis or when a plump drone tries to get through, and the plastic gates are not brilliant at maintaining the correct gap.

A crownboard without holes is a true crownboard, and one with a block of 50 or 100mm of building insulation on top is of great benefit to a colony, which will find it easier to regulate thermals and humidity in a hive. Seal the cut edges with duck tape.

Such contemporary ideas challenge routine hive layout and practices and are unlikely to be found in books or in local BKA teaching, but this Bee Culture article on thermo-regulation may interest you. If you want to read more, google Derek Mitchell's work.

 

[user 20297]

The open holes in your crownboard act as chimneys through which valuable nest heat is escaping. To accelerate wax production increase nest temperature by sealing the holes.

In truth, such continual loss of heat compromises a colony's aim to expend the minimum energy and fuel to keep the nest warm or cool thoughout the year.

A crownboard with holes is really a multi-purpose board and plastic Porter bee escapes designed to fit the two holes are particularly pointless: they jam with propolis or when a plump drone tries to get through, and the plastic gates are not briliant at maintaining the correct gap.

A crownboard without holes is a true crownboard, and one with a block of 50 or 100mm of building insulation on top is of great benefit to a colony, which will find it easier to regulate thermals and humidity in a hive. Seal the cut edges with duck tape.

Such contemporary ideas challenge routine hive layout and practices and are unlikely to be found in books or in local BKA teaching, but this Bee Culture article on thermo-regulation may interest you. If you want to read more, google Derek Mitchell's work.

An excellent article about insulation. It's written in simple English and avoids the mumbo-jumbo of pure physics. It also directly tackles most of the common objections and dismissals of the benefits of using insulation.

 

[Newbeeneil]

An excellent article about insulation. It's written in simple English and avoids the mumbo-jumbo of pure physics. It also directly tackles most of the common objections and dismissals of the benefits of using insulation.

I agree, written in basic English so even a simple bee keeper like me can understand!

 

[thorn]

I agree, written in basic English so even a simple bee keeper like me can understand!

Americans use flat cardboard matches, so their advice on ventilation must be suspect.

 

[user 20297]

I agree, written in basic English so even a simple bee keeper like me can understand!

Like all beekeepers, I'm sure you're difficult rather than simple.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Americans use flat cardboard matches, so their advice on ventilation must be suspect.

Is that the kind you strike on a cowboys chin?