ACTUALLY how heavy?

[bjosephd]

Hello Guys and Girls, Birds and Bees!

So, it seems to often come up in posts and discussions the weight of various boxes.

Particularly the weight of brood boxes (honey only, or stores & brood). And particularly when there is the controversial discussion of one size box beekeeping. It also comes up a lot when people talk about using larger brood boxes, double brood, 14x12s, commercial BBs etc.

However, we are all different strengths, and having spent a lifetime lifting up heavy things and putting them down again, I am curious as to the objective actual weight of the various full boxes... ESPECIALLY brood boxes. Then I will actually know how heavy a box is... not how heavy it seems to someone else.

Until we start talking about ACTUAL weights, it makes my research very tricky as forums are full of "I find it heavy" "I find it fine" "I always have association members to help with inspections" "I never move my hives, so it doesn't matter" etc

So... if you have weighed your actual full brood boxes (or stood on scales holding them), or have found on the internet a reliable list of BB weights... let me know!

Specifically:
National BB
National 14x12 BB
Commercial BB

(Wooden box weights ideally, for the sake of comparisons, but polys would actually be interesting as an aspect of the ol' wood vs poly debate - how much weight difference actually is there?)

Langstroth, Dadant, Smith, Rose, etc, would also be interesting.
Super weights would be interesting too as an aside, as I wonder how, for example, a Dadant super full of honey compares to a National BB or Rose box full of brood+stores.

No guessing or subjective weights allowed...

"I reckon around 40+kg probably" - NO
"About the same weight as my 2 year old kid, but not as much as my 8 month old st bernard" - NO
"Too heavy to use for honey, just ask my back, I learned the hard way, take it from me" - NO
"I use poly boxes, they are all lighter so it doesn't matter, just get polys" - NO
"Who cares. Only an idiot would use a BB for honey, don't be an idiot. Just do what I do" - NO NO

"An x-BB with xFrames weighs exactly xKG with brood+stores, and exactly xKG with honey only - I weighed them all this morning on my very precise scales" - PERFECT

 

[sussexbaker]

Paynes National Poly Brood box 2.31kg (figure from Paynes, I've got the weights for the other bits too if anyone wants them)
DN4 frame full of capped honey ~ 2kg

hth

 

[bjosephd]

First result in!

Paynes Poly National BB = 26.31kg
(honey only)

Thanks sussexbaker

 

[Swarm]

All DN4 honey frames weigh 2 kilos do they?

 

[Hivemaker.]

All DN4 honey frames weigh 2 kilos do they?

Of course not, unless packed by Tesco's.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

http://www.-------------/local/barkston-ash/johnsponderings/heavy-man~print.shtml replace the stars with the initials of a certain national beekeeping association dot org dot uk.

 

[sussexbaker]

All DN4 honey frames weigh 2 kilos do they?

No, hence that little squiggly character in front of it.

 

[bjosephd]

http://www.-------------/local/barkston-ash/johnsponderings/heavy-man~print.shtml replace the stars with the initials of a certain national beekeeping association dot org dot uk.

Sorry, probably being a dumb-arse here... but struggling to navigate to this treasure-hunt

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

http://www.b b k a.org.uk/local/barkston-ash/johnsponderings/heavy-man~print.shtml
Let's see what happens here. Take out the spaces / %20 pieces

 

[sussexbaker]

Shortened it using bit.ly which appears to work http://bit.ly/1zhR7Gc

 

[bjosephd]

agh! Still getting 404 on the site. The bark...an seems strange

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Shortened it using bit.ly which appears to work http://bit.ly/1zhR7Gc

Sweet; works for me. Thanks.

 

[bjosephd]

Shortened it using bit.ly which appears to work http://bit.ly/1zhR7Gc

Aha! Bingo!

I skimmed... I assume it's a standard national.

So this puts a National BB at 31kg if full of honey! (is that right?)

And that's before the weight of the bees!

(I'll read it properly innabit... gotta run some errands)

Maybe I'll set my hives on electronic scales that send live information to an app on my iPhone.

 

[Pete D]

Aha! Bingo!

Maybe I'll set my hives on electronic scales that send live information to an app on my iPhone.

I only have 50 or so hives, no scales.
Maybe you are over complicating this a bit, what is it you are looking to achieve.
Big boxes weigh more when full of honey.
A std national brood box can weigh anything from 3kg to 30kg depending on what is in it.
Boxes are only too heavy when you have to keep moving them which is why honey boxes are generally shallower.
Sorry no specific answers as unless empty or full the weights will always be an estimate as I dont have time to weigh them all.
Good luck on your quest.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Aha! Bingo!

Maybe I'll set my hives on electronic scales that send live information to an app on my iPhone.

Excellent.

I'd be a bit careful with "virtualizing" bee-keeping; it's basic animal husbandry and you need to take the whole thing "in the round", in my view.

You'll learn a lot by sense of smell for example. Get clear coverboards, and you can look in on them at night using a red torch and they'll never know you're there (I ignore nay-sayers elsewhere on this). Read a pamphlet (free on your iPhone in a browser) called "At the Hive Entrance" . Let's see if THAT link works http://www.------------/library/gen...eping_books_articles/At the Hive Entrance.pdf

<ADD>Boll0cks. http://www.bi0bees.com/library/general_beekeeping/beekeeping_books_articles/At the Hive Entrance.pdf. Swap the "0" in "bi0bees" for an "o".</ADD>

 

[wessexmario]

bjosephd,
if you want to weigh each individual box in your hives, then it can be done without much disturbance to the bees.

Put a suitable screw / bracket / screw eye to connect your spring balance into each side of every box.

Then you can weigh the whole hive from the bottom box,
moving up a box will give you the weight of the whole hive minus the bottom box... etc
simple subtraction of the results will give you the weight of each individual box.

That should give you accurate figures, whatever combination of boxes you have.

 

[sussexbaker]

Excellent.
You'll learn a lot by sense of smell for example. Get clear coverboards, and you can look in on them at night using a red torch and they'll never know you're there (I ignore nay-sayers elsewhere on this). Read a pamphlet (free on your iPhone in a browser) called "At the Hive Entrance" . Let's see if THAT link works

I didn't know about the red torch, makes sense (my one bit of after dark hive opening using bright LED lights didn't go well!)!

Strangely enough I sent to At The Hive Entrance to my Kindle this morning for reading on the way home (sadly the association copy is out of the library). Anyway Bit.ly'd the direct link:

http://bit.ly/1pu7ztf

 

[itma]

Wooden boxes vary.
Roofs vary (quite a lot).
Odd bits like alighting boards, dummy boards, QX/mouseguard, different coverboards, they cause variation too.
And a wooden hive's weight varies depending on how damp it is.

I've been suggesting for quite a while that those unfamiliar with 'hefting' (and wanting to weigh) should - while doing a normal inspection - be weighing their own hives and comparing the measured weight with their estimate of stores seen. Do that a few times and you'll start to build up a picture (a mental image) of what a particular weight might mean. And your margin of error.
But its a bit late to start now.

 

[enrico]

bjosephd,
if you want to weigh each individual box in your hives, then it can be done without much disturbance to the bees.

Put a suitable screw / bracket / screw eye to connect your spring balance into each side of every box.

Then you can weigh the whole hive from the bottom box,
moving up a box will give you the weight of the whole hive minus the bottom box... etc
simple subtraction of the results will give you the weight of each individual box.

That should give you accurate figures, whatever combination of boxes you have.

I don't think they have any hives, hence the question to see which one might suit them best!
I agree with all the others, what you are looking for is the maximum weight that each box might weigh as the weights can differ immensely, even from day to day, moving brood box's is a fairly rare occurrence, moving supers is the usual thing, if you can lift 30lbs in weight without a problem then national supers should not be a problem either
E

 

[REDWOOD]

The only trouble is, if you hold a hive and stand on a scales you can't see the dial, plus I think it will be over the maximum weight allowed and could end up doing your back some serious injury, so just hefting will give you a good indication how much stores you have.