acetic acid

[kevinrrogers67]

Some basic chemistry needed here:

Caustic soda is sodium hydroxide (NaOH) a very corrosive substance due to being a strong alkali. Really only used as oven/drain cleaner. No use to beekeepers.

Washing soda is sodium carbonate (Na2CO3; the 2 and 3 should be subscript but don't seem to be able to find this function on here). This is a weak alkali and is widely used for cleaning purposes. Used to clean beekeeping equipment.

Acetic acid (systematic name ethanoic acid but it is the same stuff) is a weak acid. Pure form is often called glacial acetic acid as it freezed to form a substance which looks like ice.

Vinegar as many have said a 10% or so solution of acteic acid useually made by oxidation of an ethanolic solution. This would not have anywhere near the same effect as 80% acetic acid which is corrosive and would 'burn your skin.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Really only used as oven/drain cleaner. No use to beekeepers.
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Well its useful to this beekeeper,use it for making bio diesel and sterilising. Also used in soap making,which some beekeepers do.

 

[itma]

Some basic chemistry needed here:
...
Acetic acid (...) is a weak acid.
... 80% acetic acid which is corrosive and would 'burn your skin.

If attempting to write for a non-technical audience, (correctly, in Chemistry jargon) calling Acetic a "weak acid" is downright UN-helpful.

As you later note, it is powerful stuff, but it needs to be said that it needs very careful handling. It is harmful stuff.

 

[kevinrrogers67]

Sorry for being unhelpful

 

[kevinrrogers67]

Well yes but not for cleaning of hive equipment or the types of thing most people do about the house.

Beekeepers really are a strange lot. They seem to get the hump sooo easily.

 

[Finman]

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Hivemaker! What do you do when you see mold in combs?

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[susbees]

Of course I didn't mean anyone to try it, thats why I put in the 'eek'
Ruary

Quite so. I was just underlining it. There's an alarming lack of knowledge on this thread.

 

[Hivemaker.]

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Hivemaker! What do you do when you see mold in combs?
.

Let the bees clean them up.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Sorry for being unhelpful

Well I thought it was helpful!

 

[itma]

Sorry for being unhelpful

I'm sure it was all helpful, except for the (technically absolutely correct but misleading to the non-chemist) description of Acetic as a 'weak acid'.
Its so much more harmful/dangerous than Washing Soda... !

 

[Finman]

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Remember, vinegar is food stuff. Not poison. With acidity you can store some food.
My favorit is "herring rolls".

I used acetic acid 45 years ago, but not after that. It took skin away from my thump.
Too dangerous job.

Results with polyurethane glue is the same if you do not use gloves.

 

[bbadger07]

job done

well ive bought acetic acid 99.5% so i will dilute, its 250ml so i will add the solution to 60ml of water to dilute, i scrapped all my frames and combs because they had been badly stored. I want to sell honey to people later.. the remaining frames with undrawn foundation have a slight covering of mould in some areas so treatment with acetic acid should freshen them up and i will use them as a back up if needed thanks everyone for your replies....

 

[Finman]

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Can you understand that you make completely wrong. During my 50 years in beekeeping you are the first who wash combs with acetic acid.

Second, you are the first beekeeper who do not believe that bees take care about moldy combs.
You need not do nothing to combs. Mold is usual in beehives after winter and bees clean it.

You ask first advise and then you however do like you first thought it. In that meaning you are quite usual guy in beeks.

I am cruel because you doing a big mistake with your acetic.
.

 

[chickendave]

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Can you understand that you make completely wrong. During my 50 years in beekeeping you are the first who wash combs with acetic acid.

Second, you are the first beekeeper who do not believe that bees take care about moldy combs.
You need not do nothing to combs. Mold is usual in beehives after winter and bees clean it.

You ask first advise and then you however do like you first thought it. In that meaning you are quite usual guy in beeks.

I am cruel because you doing a big mistake with your acetic.
.

I agree with Finman don't use chemicals let the bees clean the frames themselfs

 

[Black Comb]

In the past always used new combs but going to give acetic a go for the first time.
A few of the frames have small patches of sealed stores. Will this contaminate the honey inside and render them useless?

 

[Polyanwood]

I think that if you have a big wax moth problem, you might want to clean mouldy combs with ethanoic acid, but otherwise, no point. ( I have been using it for the first time this year as I am close to apiaries with EFB..and I thought that it might reduce the risk... but now I realise that I probably wasted my time... EFB doesn't hang around on comb anyway does it?)

 

[Ely]

When frames a little bit mouldly, no cleaning agents are needeed. This chain has again advices for nothing.

Mold is very common in beehives after winter. Bees shew down mold spoiled cells and they built it again. Often they clean combs up to foundation.
Even if you wash the wax, bees must renew it.

I cross my fingers if at least some one listen to me.

I've listened to you Finman. I'm sure many other lurkers have too

 

[susbees]

I think that if you have a big wax moth problem, you might want to clean mouldy combs with ethanoic acid, but otherwise, no point. ( I have been using it for the first time this year as I am close to apiaries with EFB..and I thought that it might reduce the risk... but now I realise that I probably wasted my time... EFB doesn't hang around on comb anyway does it?)

NBU guidelines say fumigate combs with 80% acetic acid for EFB

 

[oliver90owner]

Ethanoic is for sterilising potentially nosemic frames. That is all.

I, like Finman, use hot caustic soda solution to clean frame woodwork. It is nasty and corrosive if you get it wrong, but is good for the job! Just need to be safe and to know the differences of these cleaning/sterilising agents.

I've handled aqua regia (oxidising hydrochloric for dissolving gold etc), chromic acid and many other apparently obnoxious chemicals over the years as well as highly radioactive substances. Dissolved things in molten caustic soda and then dissolved the whole lot in very hot water (after allowing the soda to cool a bit!). You just need to know what you are doing! If you don't, don't take the risk.

EDIT: I would not even think about saving a few frames where EFB were concerned, but I assume Susbees is correct in that statement.

 

[Finman]

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Other nations recommend to change genepool to EFB resistant bee strain
It worked in my yard 45 y ago and has worked since then.

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