acetic acid

[Black Comb]

I want to sterilise the frames from Nosema.
Can anyone answer my question, i.e. will the small amount of capped honey on/in some of the frames be poisonous to the bees if I sterilise these frames and then use them next year?

 

[mbc]

I want to sterilise the frames from Nosema.
Can anyone answer my question, i.e. will the small amount of capped honey on/in some of the frames be poisonous to the bees if I sterilise these frames and then use them next year?

If they werent poisonous to bees before using acetic then neither will they be after, given that they're aired a bit before going back on bees.

 

[peteinwilts]

not a debate I want to get into (although interesting reading!), or wanting to change the subject

I was interested in reading Acetic Acid kills nosema spores.

I have some old wax and frames tucked away from a failed colony with some bee 'poo' spots. I was unsure whether to throw the wax away or whether they can be cleaned.

Is there an alternative method to using Acetic, as in an undiluted form, it is pretty nasty stuff (will freezing work?).

I would not use it on mould. I follow Finmans advice.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I want to sterilise the frames from Nosema.
Can anyone answer my question, i.e. will the small amount of capped honey on/in some of the frames be poisonous to the bees if I sterilise these frames and then use them next year?

The small amount of honey will be fine,but the fumigation may not be as effective in the area with stores, the acetic may affect any exposed wires if there are any, turning them black.

 

[Finman]

I want to sterilise the frames from Nosema.
Can anyone answer my question, i.e. will the small amount of capped honey on/in some of the frames be poisonous to the bees if I sterilise these frames and then use them next year?

80% acetic acid gasification is meant to that. It needs warm air. You put them into a big plastic bag and pour 96% acetic acid to some absorbing stuff.

Here is more advices

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/177519/nosema-disease.pdf

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[user 6228]

if a "MOULD" cleansing agent is required,
Ehanoic acid, sodium carbonate and Sodium hydroxide all seem like overkill and a bit bizarre.
Simple dilute bleach(sodium hypochlorite) would be easier..

Bees have been in very close contact with mouldy wood for millenia and in fact owe their habitat to the moulds that inhabit wood.

However, not all moulds are pathogens, for all we know the bees may find these moulds either theraputic or tasty.

Unless proven pathogenic I would leave alone.

(trying to strip a wooden frame of wax, propolis etc ... different game)

 

[Ely]

 

[yeogi75]

Ethanoic is for sterilising potentially nosemic frames. That is all.

I, like Finman, use hot caustic soda solution to clean frame woodwork. It is nasty and corrosive if you get it wrong, but is good for the job! Just need to be safe and to know the differences of these cleaning/sterilising agents.

I've handled aqua regia (oxidising hydrochloric for dissolving gold etc), chromic acid and many other apparently obnoxious chemicals over the years as well as highly radioactive substances. Dissolved things in molten caustic soda and then dissolved the whole lot in very hot water (after allowing the soda to cool a bit!). You just need to know what you are doing! If you don't, don't take the risk.

EDIT: I would not even think about saving a few frames where EFB were concerned, but I assume Susbees is correct in that statement.

i agree with rab on this one, used hf rab nice stuff, i think cut out old comb boil in water re foundatin frame ,no chemicals needed

 

[oliver90owner]

I was told (about 45 years ago), in days long gone the tanker drivers were issued with a scalpel to remove the skin if they got splashed.

 

[Finman]

I was told (about 45 years ago), in days long gone the tanker drivers were issued with a scalpel to remove the skin if they got splashed.

You mean that driver with tank over the combs. That inspector said?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Is there an alternative method to using Acetic, as in an undiluted form, it is pretty nasty stuff (will freezing work?).

for nosema apis spores then freezing does not work but some reaseach says Nosema ceranae is effected by freezing at -20c for 48hrs but other says two weeks but i expect you have Nosema apis

easier to bin them or use to light your fire

 

[REDWOOD]

so you have decided to wash your frames with costic soda, how do you get ride of the waste, are there any environmental issues we should know, can you throw it down the drain or take it to a recycling plant ?

 

[Polyanwood]

NBU guidelines say fumigate combs with 80% acetic acid for EFB

I know, that is why i did it, but I was thinking EFB is not spore forming, so I guess not much if any would survive the Winter anyway?? Maybe the fact that i don't get it and my neighbours do is nothing to do with my good apiary hygiene and to do with the bees' genetics anyway.

 

[mbc]

so you have decided to wash your frames with costic soda, how do you get ride of the waste, are there any environmental issues we should know, can you throw it down the drain or take it to a recycling plant ?

Caustic soda is fine to go down the drain but it should be rinsed down with plenty of water, same goes for bleach and if you use acetic acid it all goes to fumes, so theres no real environmental issues other than common sense respect for the substances and appropriate PPE

 

[Hivemaker.]

how do you get ride of the waste,

Down the drain. It is one of the main substances sold and used as a drain cleaner.

 

[REDWOOD]

2 in 1 then clean frames and clean drains

 

[Finman]

so you have decided to wash your frames with costic soda, how do you get ride of the waste, are there any environmental issues we should know, can you throw it down the drain or take it to a recycling plant ?

Lye is a corrosive alkaline substance, commonly sodium hydroxide (NaOH, also known as 'caustic soda') or historically potassium hydroxide (KOH,

I poured the solution in my garden into nettle bush. Netles got no violation from this. It was 60 litres.

Why?

The soil is full of humus acids. They neutralize at once the alkalic impact.

I washed the frames with garden hoast. Then I sunk them into 500 litres water container.

I handles this way 200 frames.

Finally I put small 6 crucian carps into big water tank and looked after 5 days, what happened to them. They were all alive.

Lye has nothing which can accumulate into nature or into soil

 

[peteinwilts]

sorry finman. 5 days is no test for a fish that has been in a tank with sodium

excess sodium ions in inbalanced water is a gill irritent and can effect the water penetration into the body. (yes! fish can dehydrate!)

a better 'test' would be to see if the carp has redder than normal or 'raw' gills.
With low exposure, the gills can have inflamation which can then make them supceptable to other issues\diseases.

Long exposure to excess sodium can kill fish over days... weeks... months.. or longer.

although I agree flushing caustic soda into a drain is no problem. by the time it is downstream it will be a tiny fraction of ppb's, there will be little or no effect.
Don't flush it into a cess pit though.

 

[Finman]

sorry finman. 5 days is no test for a fish that has been in a tank with sodium

excess sodium ions in inbalanced water is a gill irritent and can effect the water penetration into the body. (yes! fish can dehydrate!)

a better 'test' would be to see if the carp has redder than normal or 'raw' gills.
With low exposure, the gills can have inflamation which can then make them supceptable to other issues\diseases.

Long exposure to excess sodium can kill fish over days... weeks... months.. or longer.

although I agree flushing caustic soda into a drain is no problem. by the time it is downstream it will be a tiny fraction of ppb's, there will be little or no effect.
Don't flush it into a cess pit though.

I have an education of plant physiology in university. I know enough from these things.

It it kills, I get new from dirty ponds. I do not rear them. heh heh.

People have used lye hundred of years. It even made mens' singing voice better.

But not to pants guys


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