50% losses winter 2012/2013

[Stiffy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jun/13/honeybee-colonies-england-winter?CMP=twt_gu

 

[Russel]

Tim Lovett on Radio 4 this morning!

 

[pargyle]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jun/13/honeybee-colonies-england-winter?CMP=twt_gu

Well, this post will open another can of worms I would think ! Admin get your moving button ready...

For my two pennorth these losses are extraordinary ... and I recongnise the compounding effect of a poor season the year before. But .... it does make you wonder what the hell is going on ? It cannot just be climate.

So many reports of bees starving whilst there is still honey left in the hive and even fondant on top of the frames .... there is something wrong.

 

[Erichalfbee]

From my BKA this morning

Information was obtained from 22 people

6 people had 18 active poly hives going into winter - 14 have survived the winter (Failure rate 22%)
The failures were all from one apiary at 1000 feet and exposed.

19 people had 66 active wooden hives going into winter (some had poly ones as well)
35 have survived the winter (some were reported as being weak) (Failure rate 47%)

Most failures seem to be from starvation and the bees not breaking the cluster to get stores that were near but not close enough to the cluster.

Of the three people who had both Poly and wood hives (5 Poly and 7 Wood) All the poly hives survived the winter but only 1 wooden one did.

 

[Skyhook]

Interesting post Erica, and interesting result- but I would say in line with what people have been reporting on here.

Does your BKA advise the use of matchsticks? A lot of people still cling to the idea that' cold doesn't kill bees, damp kills bees'. A cold hive doesn't kill bees, but leads to isolation starvation, which does.

.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I haven't been to enough meetings to ask

 

[pargyle]

From my BKA this morning

Information was obtained from 22 people

6 people had 18 active poly hives going into winter - 14 have survived the winter (Failure rate 22%)
The failures were all from one apiary at 1000 feet and exposed.

19 people had 66 active wooden hives going into winter (some had poly ones as well)
35 have survived the winter (some were reported as being weak) (Failure rate 47%)

Most failures seem to be from starvation and the bees not breaking the cluster to get stores that were near but not close enough to the cluster.

Of the three people who had both Poly and wood hives (5 Poly and 7 Wood) All the poly hives survived the winter but only 1 wooden one did.

Whilst a snapshot of the local situation the results do reflect the national picture. What would be interesting would be a much more in-depth survey to include the other possible factors affecting the colonies :

Top ventilation, Open mesh floor, feeding, hive insulation, type of hive, configuration, varroa treatment and possibly more.

With a fuller picture it should be possible to be a bit more specific.

I have a feeling, mainly from reading and anecdotal evidence, that the hives that are best insulated and lacking top ventilation are those that are surviving most. Poly obviously has an advantage over timber in this respect and Erica's BKA figures show this as an obvious statistic ... but it would be interesting to get a bigger picture. Must be a PhD student out there somewhere looking for a project ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Does your BKA advise the use of matchsticks?.

I don't to my students but a lot of people in the area still insist a gaping hole in the roof is good for the bees - I've noticed that beekeepers in the extremities of Wales still have the same belief. What is more surprising is that some of these beekeepers are well thought of country wide and still insist on using Apistan strips in resistant areas.
One or two beeks in my area have had 100% losses due to isolation starvation and guess what - no OSR around here.
But I'm sure we'll have the usual drum bangers and hand wringers along in a minute

 

[masterBK]

Winter hardiness is a major factor when I come to selecting the queens I breed from. All my losses (15%) this last winter were from drone laying queens with none lost to starvation (been decades since I lost any to starvation) or Nosema. My bees winter in double brood wooden hives allowing bees to move vertically as well as horizontally as the winter progresses and they can use the bee space between the boxes to get to stores. Some people who keep their bees in double broods during the summer reduce them down to one brood box for winter. I think this is a mistake as the cluster move sideways and can be isolated from the other side unable to reach stores on the other side.

 

[itma]

My subjective impression is that a higher % of losses seems to be associated with beeks having a bigger number of hives.

Discounting 'first winter' 1-hive-owners (who are generally instructed that looking at their bees at all during the winter will cause immediate colony death), my anecdotal evidence suggests that garden-beekeepers had much less in the way of losses than those with a few out-apiaries.

My poly came through fine (with stores remaining) whereas the cedars needed fondant, but survived OK.
The poly got off to a much much faster start than the others.
I have seen the future, and its poly.

 

[Fraise]

Even if it is proved that more poly hives survived the winter than wooden ones that does not take into account the condition of the hives.
Most poly hives are relatively new and therefore in good condition. Some wooden boxes are still in use after many seasons and much battering.

 

[roche]

Winter hardiness is a major factor when I come to selecting the queens I breed from. All my losses (15%) this last winter were from drone laying queens with none lost to starvation (been decades since I lost any to starvation) or Nosema. My bees winter in double brood wooden hives allowing bees to move vertically as well as horizontally as the winter progresses and they can use the bee space between the boxes to get to stores. Some people who keep their bees in double broods during the summer reduce them down to one brood box for winter. I think this is a mistake as the cluster move sideways and can be isolated from the other side unable to reach stores on the other side.

I agree with that - I tend to winter on brood and a half, with the half at the top. (not ideal but it's what I've got...) The extra degree of freedom of movement seems to be important. I suspect that is why overwintering on large frames seems to be a bit more fraught.

 

[user 6228]

Even if it is proved that more poly hives survived the winter than wooden ones that does not take into account the condition of the hives.
Most poly hives are relatively new and therefore in good condition. Some wooden boxes are still in use after many seasons and much battering.

Its about margin for survival. Imagine a cliff with a crowd of people in blue and red jerseys milling around on the cliff top. While few are falling off the cliff its difficult to tell where the centre of the crowd is or who is mostly on the cliff side or the landside.
Something happens that moves the whole crowd much nearer the cliff and we get lots falling . Its only then we find out that those persons wearing red jerseys were on average much nearer the cliff.

 

[user 6228]

Winter hardiness is a major factor when I come to selecting the queens I breed from. All my losses (15%) this last winter were from drone laying queens with none lost to starvation (been decades since I lost any to starvation) or Nosema. My bees winter in double brood wooden hives allowing bees to move vertically as well as horizontally as the winter progresses and they can use the bee space between the boxes to get to stores. Some people who keep their bees in double broods during the summer reduce them down to one brood box for winter. I think this is a mistake as the cluster move sideways and can be isolated from the other side unable to reach stores on the other side.

Why not keep them in a box that is insulated enough so that clustering is optional rather than forced? They wont isolation starve then.

 

[DanBee]

So many reports of bees starving whilst there is still honey left in the hive and even fondant on top of the frames .... there is something wrong.

Isolation starvation.

 

[susbees]

Why not keep them in a box that is insulated enough so that clustering is optional rather than forced? They wont isolation starve then.

I lost one colony last winter at 600+ feet (and didn't fill in the survey as wasn't going to compromise the health of my bees by opening up too early).

Cause - isolation starvation due to small size: should have put them in a nuc - late swarm from miles away. Size is the issue I feel with starvation...a big cluster finds it easier to relocate than a smaller one. Stands to reason. But so does not having Italian bees - the only Italian-looking colony here was light by November and had to be re-fed.

All the nucs survived in wooden hives with a poly coat, all but one made a full colony, the other laid poorly (but not drone). All the Commercials had a slab of Kingspan over the crownboard with a fondant tub set in it....so the only disturbance was to OA in January (following no thymol in August as just no need).

Going into winter at similar weights to last year the fondant bill here was halved as they weren't clustering and unclustering and partying. So a mix of poly/wood can work just fine - I feel much happier scorching wood than having my poly bits chewed by mice and badgers and sloshing yet more soda about

 

[SimonB]

BBKA press release is reporting 33.8% in England cf. 16.2% for 2011/12.

 

[pargyle]

Isolation starvation.

yep .. I've read all the stuff on warm way and cold way and I understand that bees could just move through the stores one way and then (when very cold) come up against the wall of the hive and be unable to find their way (or relocate) to where the stores were. But it appears to me that virtually everyone fed their bees with fondant above the frames last winter - expecting the worst as the year before - and yet still colonies died out. It has to be more complex than Isolation Starvation - although it is, clearly, one factor.

 

[Erichalfbee]

some of these beekeepers are well thought of country wide and still insist on using Apistan strips in resistant areas.

When I found out that the association apiary is nearby I thought..."goody at least we can synchronise autumn treatment". The strongest hive that was to be "Snelgroved" the following week to demonstrate the method to students had obvious severe DWV. A shiny plastic inspection board with no sticky was put in for a count. I asked what they used for their autumn treatment and was told Hive Alive.
How do you,as a newbee, speak up without ruffling old feathers?

 

[VEG]

It's good to ruffle a few feathers