workers wanted, notts area

[user 819]

The challenge for clubs is to find decent beeks who can teach. Not those who think they can.

And a prime one is my LBKA, they like to promote BBKA nonsense. Trying to get them to change their ways is like .
Shook swarms and top ventilation are two.
The main Pied Piper will barely broach the subject of vaping bees for varroa but OA dribbling is ok in mid winter.

Edit remark.
Something went amiss with this and the previous post, so beg pardon.

 

[masterBK]

" how to deal with a badly behaved hive? " It is indeed an important topic.
If Stiffy would care to have a look at the BBKA general husbandry syllabus there is a section to deal with this very question!

4.15 The actions required to deal with a vicious stock of bees

Also in the module 1 syllabus you will find the following.
1.12 the variable temperament of bees in relation to management and public relations;
1.13 the actions which can be taken to avoid bad-tempered bees causing a nuisance to members of the public;

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

and..........

 

[Ian123]

" how to deal with a badly behaved hive? " It is indeed an important topic.
If Stiffy would care to have a look at the BBKA general husbandry syllabus there is a section to deal with this very question!

4.15 The actions required to deal with a vicious stock of bees

Also in the module 1 syllabus you will find the following.
1.12 the variable temperament of bees in relation to management and public relations;
1.13 the actions which can be taken to avoid bad-tempered bees causing a nuisance to members of the public;

So beginners need to be looking at or taught the husbandry certifate Does that form the basis of most beginners courses.

 

[jeff33]

I helped a friend last weekend to re-queen a sxxxty colony, yes they were indeed shixxy but I have had, dealt with and seen worse. The day before he was stung very badly around the ankles to the point he just put the hive back together and walked (ran) off. He was so badly stung he spoke to a doctor for advice and is now considering if beekeeping is for him. He had in the past done a course but several things have become very evident to him, and me that really should be addressed. There seems to be a great rush to get as many people through BBKA courses as possible and I think they miss or are steered away from what I believe is one of the most important aspects of beekeeping and that's how to deal with a badly behaved hive. I quizzed my friend if he learnt about about aggressive hives when he did the course and he said that the tutor apparently said he had never had one and that only people not keeping a certain type of bee suffers with aggressive bees............he was also told that bees never go down, so suit legs pushed into loose fitting wellies are fine!!!!

I made a similar mistake a couple of years ago. Most of my bees are well behaved and I usually wear bib & brace with walking shoes. For the more feisty one I used to pull the socks over so they didn't crawl up... biggest mistake. The bees started stinging through the socks causing a frenzy. I had over 30 stings and had a bad reaction nearly ending up in A&E. Now I will wear full suit over thick trousers and wellies with duck tape if I ever need to deal with such hive. I try to kill queens early enough though, they get 2 chances.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So beginners need to be looking at or taught the husbandry certifate Does that form the basis of most beginners courses.

well how on earth do you think they are going to do anything unless they have a bit of paper to tell them they can do it?

 

[jeff33]

I am still of the belief that the theory learnt through the clubs doesn't prepare you for beekeeping as it's so unpredictable. Society apiaries are also quite something with 6 novices popping their heads and hands in a single hive, right in front of the entrance, pissing off bees and probably killing the queen every other inspection!

 

[Erichalfbee]

" how to deal with a badly behaved hive? " It is indeed an important topic.
If Stiffy would care to have a look at the BBKA general husbandry syllabus there is a section to deal with this very question!

4.15 The actions required to deal with a vicious stock of bees

What's the answer, please

 

[masterBK]

There are many very competent beekeepers (and I have examined quite a few of these myself over the years) around with these despised "bits of paper . In well run BKAs these will be involved in passing on the skills and knowledge and mentoring the beginners and they should have in my view a minimum of module 1 (practical beekeeping theory) and general husbandry cert (hence why I mentioned their syllabus sections in my previous post ) as well as several years of experience and good interpersonal skills. That said, there are also loads of well meaning (well some are) people who think they know it all but have no proof of their competence who are churning out beekeepers who can't tell the difference between a queen cell and a drone cell and whose bees swarm every year. End of rant

 

[Erichalfbee]

There are many very competent beekeepers (and I have examined quite a few of these myself over the years) around with these despised "bits of paper . In well run BKAs these will be involved in passing on the skills and knowledge and mentoring the beginners and they should have in my view a minimum of module 1 (practical beekeeping theory) and general husbandry cert (hence why I mentioned their syllabus sections in my previous post ) as well as several years of experience and good interpersonal skills. That said, there are also loads of well meaning (well some are) people who think they know it all but have no proof of their competence who are churning out beekeepers who can't tell the difference between a queen cell and a drone cell and whose bees swarm every year. End of rant

But what's the answer please .....to 4.15

 

[Erichalfbee]

But what's the answer please .....to 4.15

Does anybody know?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

there are many very competent beekeepers (and I have examined quite a few of these myself over the years) around with these despised "bits of paper .

And probably as many, if not more who have passed all the modules thrown at them and are still pretty clueless.
In fact, I know a few 'master' beekeepers who would struggle to run an apiary.
Maybe the fault is with the examiners then, not the candidates.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But what's the answer please .....to 4.15

Forty Two

 

[Erichalfbee]

Forty Two

I was rather hoping it wasn't petrol

 

[masterBK]

Hitchhikers guide?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hitchhikers guide?

It's probably the only answer I'm going to get

 

[masterBK]

There is no simple answer. If the aggression is genetically determined the "long term" answer is to move the bees out to an isolated spot and requeen them with a queen from a gentler strain and not move them back until temperament has considerably improved (can take a few weeks although occasionally replacing the old queen with a young one pumping out loads of pheromone can quiet them down very quickly). In the meantime there are a few things to consider. Many "so called" stroppy colonies are often not as described as the beekeeper is "the problem" opening them up too often and at unsuitable times eg when all the bees are at home eg in cold windy weather, just before thunderstorm etc or they were clumsy or heavy handed with jerky manipulation or used too much or too little smoke and letting them get out of control. ie is is aggression or defensive behaviour being witnessed ?

One useful technique with badly behavioured bees is to first move the hive a few yards away leaving the supers on the original site to pick up the fliers. A bled hive is easier to inspect as far less older bees will remain in the brood chamber ( and these are the potential stingers) . Of course get properly protected inside bee -suit, wellies etc and make sure there are no members of the family, public etc are out and about, Don't expose too many frames at one go by covering frame top bars (I use the removed dummy board rather than a cover cloth). Only check the minimal number of frames needed to work out what is going on (about four if often enough ) . Only opening the hive when absolutely necessary and even then keep all manipulations down to a few minutes. Stand behind the hive with foliage behind you so they can't "pick you out" against the sky . Years ago I came across a beekeeper that popped pieces of dried puff ball into his smoker (to anaesthetise them)
Lots of other things but getting tired of typing now and I have had a long day. I'm sure others will come up with other possibly more useful tips.

If you do have to kill them (they would have to be pretty bad to justify that) don't use petrol (the thought of beekeeper with can of petrol in one hand and lit smoker in the other!!") Spraying bees with "washing up" water kills them fairly well and doesn't contaminate the combs

 

[user 819]

And probably as many, if not more who have passed all the modules thrown at them and are still pretty clueless.
In fact, I know a few 'master' beekeepers who would struggle to run an apiary.
Maybe the fault is with the examiners then, not the candidates.

Yes, some are academic and can read and regurgitate by rote.

 

[Antipodes]

It's probably the only answer I'm going to get

One thing I have done a few times with truly aggressive colonies when my purpose of opening is to kill the queen, is a really massive smoking of the hive prior to opening them up. Not your usual run of the mill piddly smoking , but an absolute stack of pungent radiata pine needle smoke right in the entrance. In my experience, it turns monsters into lambs and then you can move boxes and frames around more easily to get fliers to return to the original site to help to find the queen (as in the standard instructions -per MasterBK above).

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I helped a friend last weekend to re-queen a sxxxty colony, yes they were indeed shixxy but I have had, dealt with and seen worse. The day before he was stung very badly around the ankles to the point he just put the hive back together and walked (ran) off. He was so badly stung he spoke to a doctor for advice and is now considering if beekeeping is for him. He had in the past done a course but several things have become very evident to him, and me that really should be addressed. There seems to be a great rush to get as many people through BBKA courses as possible and I think they miss or are steered away from what I believe is one of the most important aspects of beekeeping and that's how to deal with a badly behaved hive. I quizzed my friend if he learnt about about aggressive hives when he did the course and he said that the tutor apparently said he had never had one and that only people not keeping a certain type of bee suffers with aggressive bees............he was also told that bees never go down, so suit legs pushed into loose fitting wellies are fine!!!!

At 74 there's no way I'm interested in having more certificates than I already have from my years earning a living in engineering. However I've handled good and bad bees, sorted out nightmare bees (watched by a beginner on a taster day and he's gone on to be our current apiary manager). There's no one size fits all solution but if you're lucky enough to find a good mentor with the ability to convey knowledge you're halfway there. Whether you want to collect badges along the way is a personal choice. I'd like to think any of my previous mentees who encounter something new (to them) would use the telephone for advice or ask for assistance.