workers wanted, notts area

[Erichalfbee]

There is no simple answer. If the aggression is genetically determined the "long term" answer is to move the bees out to an isolated spot and requeen them with a queen from a gentler strain and not move them back until temperament has considerably improved (can take a few weeks although occasionally replacing the old queen with a young one pumping out loads of pheromone can quiet them down very quickly). In the meantime there are a few things to consider. Many "so called" stroppy colonies are often not as described as the beekeeper is "the problem" opening them up too often and at unsuitable times eg when all the bees are at home eg in cold windy weather, just before thunderstorm etc or they were clumsy or heavy handed with jerky manipulation or used too much or too little smoke and letting them get out of control. ie is is aggression or defensive behaviour being witnessed ?

One useful technique with badly behavioured bees is to first move the hive a few yards away leaving the supers on the original site to pick up the fliers. A bled hive is easier to inspect as far less older bees will remain in the brood chamber ( and these are the potential stingers) . Of course get properly protected inside bee -suit, wellies etc and make sure there are no members of the family, public etc are out and about, Don't expose too many frames at one go by covering frame top bars (I use the removed dummy board rather than a cover cloth). Only check the minimal number of frames needed to work out what is going on (about four if often enough ) . Only opening the hive when absolutely necessary and even then keep all manipulations down to a few minutes. Stand behind the hive with foliage behind you so they can't "pick you out" against the sky . Years ago I came across a beekeeper that popped pieces of dried puff ball into his smoker (to anaesthetise them)
Lots of other things but getting tired of typing now and I have had a long day. I'm sure others will come up with other possibly more useful tips.

If you do have to kill them (they would have to be pretty bad to justify that) don't use petrol (the thought of beekeeper with can of petrol in one hand and lit smoker in the other!!") Spraying bees with "washing up" water kills them fairly well and doesn't contaminate the combs

Been there. Split boxes. Even the super bees came out to get us. Requeened. It was finding her that needed a chunk of bravery. One thing I’ve learned is that if a colony is getting progressively tetchy leaving them over winter to see if they are better the following spring is a mistake

 

[Arfermo]

Been there. Split boxes. Even the super bees came out to get us. Requeened. It was finding her that needed a chunk of bravery. One thing I’ve learned is that if a colony is getting progressively tetchy leaving them over winter to see if they are better the following spring is a mistake

Who is that in the image please. Very interested as I have never experienced that, though I did spend a couple of hours a couple of nights ago watching some clown in USA explaining what he was going to do with a colony as bad as that. First plan he had was to change the Q and then found he had no option but to load buckets of soapy water off a low stepladder through about 5 boxes to despatch the whole lot. Been a beek for 10 years he said. Dressed to nines, started to find the Q, got a couple of bees inside his hood, ran away about 15 yds, then tore off his hood and got really loaded with stingers. Bloody amateur with a brass neck to broadcast such rubbish who also had too many cameras on tripods to show how not to do it imho and expecting newbies to learn from him. Defies belief. Anybody else seen it on Utube I think - tot tired at 2am to notice!!

 

[Kaz]

The challenge for clubs is to find decent beeks who can teach. Not those who think they can.

I agree, there needs to be more education. That said, as a relatively new beek, there is so much to take in on a course ( the one I attended was actually very good and did cover dealing with this challenge), I found that I didn't retain that information. And so newbees trundle along for the first year or two with lovely calm colonies and don't encounter this until later by which time all memory of it is gone. Then we pop onto a forum like this and it all comes flooding back . Of course having to man up and actually do it is still another story, heart in mouth stuff...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Who is that in the image please.

Stan
He’s braver than me
I was taking the video. It’s full of expletives as well as bees

 

[Stiffy]

" how to deal with a badly behaved hive? " It is indeed an important topic.
If Stiffy would care to have a look at the BBKA general husbandry syllabus there is a section to deal with this very question!

4.15 The actions required to deal with a vicious stock of bees

Also in the module 1 syllabus you will find the following.
1.12 the variable temperament of bees in relation to management and public relations;
1.13 the actions which can be taken to avoid bad-tempered bees causing a nuisance to members of the public;

I have no interest in the BBKA or their 'syllabus' , but with my limited experience try and help beeks I know as far as I am able and I was reporting a 'problem' as I see it.
Indeed, yesterday I was talking to a new beekeeper who had just received their shiny new nuc. He was convinced that shaking icing sugar over them would cure varroa and that they would knock out any queen cells that 'appear' as they dont wish to have anymore than a single hive and never intend to come across a nasty bee as they don't import queen bees. There is, IMHO some very dodgy advice being dished out.

 

[Stiffy]

Stan
He’s braver than me
I was taking the video. It’s full of expletives as well as bees

My 6 year old grandson reported to my wife when asked how he enjoyed looking at the bees ....'granny it was great but some are called bxxxasd ' I'm definitely not a good teacher

 

[Rikki]

Forty Two

The meaning of life the universe and everything?

 

[plain_hunt]

But what's the answer please .....to 4.15

When I was acquiring some of these “despised” bits of paper, our stock answer was always - Petrol!
Apparently, it isn’t, not always.

 

[Erichalfbee]

When I was acquiring some of these “despised” bits of paper, our stock answer was always - Petrol!
Apparently, it isn’t, not always.

Hardly ever petrol; washing up liquid sometimes

 

[sean-a]

I made a similar mistake a couple of years ago. Most of my bees are well behaved and I usually wear bib & brace with walking shoes. For the more feisty one I used to pull the socks over so they didn't crawl up... biggest mistake. The bees started stinging through the socks causing a frenzy. I had over 30 stings and had a bad reaction nearly ending up in A&E. Now I will wear full suit over thick trousers and wellies with duck tape if I ever need to deal with such hive. I try to kill queens early enough though, they get 2 chances.

I have done this too!
Only needs one sting and the buggers home in on that. I squished a bee between my leg and the top of a wellie and all hell broke loose. I had 20 or 30 stings embedded in the black rubber of the wellies and quite a few in my ankles.
Closed them up quickly and beat a hasty retreat!
The hive was usually calm and easy to handle, and was the next time I opened it up. Having washed my bee suit and smeared Vix vapour rub over the top of my wellies!!

 

[sean-a]

Been there. Split boxes. Even the super bees came out to get us. Requeened. It was finding her that needed a chunk of bravery. One thing I’ve learned is that if a colony is getting progressively tetchy leaving them over winter to see if they are better the following spring is a mistake

And that's when he's only got as far as taking the dummy board out

 

[elainemary]

is there anyone in the notts area that could spare me 2 or 3 frames of bees to support a weak hive with a new queen last year.
If I don't give them some help quick they will die

Hi hope you find someone local that can help. I had a text from someone local this week, asking if I could spare a frame of eggs - her only hive had become a drone layer.

I asked her to find an old (ideally sterilised) comb and leave it out for me. Looked through one of mine and found a frame that was older with eggs and pollen on. Used a sharp Stanley knife to cut a section and spliced this into her frame (new comb is harder to handle as so soft). Dribbled some wax from a beeswax candle around the edges. Approx 20 or more eggs in the patch, so if her drone layer has enough young bees they should be able to make a new queen. Gave it a light spray with water. Wrapped it up & kept warm (took hot water bottle with me). Took no more than 5-10mins to do. Probably didn’t need to use the beeswax.

Worth asking a local beekeeper if they will do this for you - isn’t there a beekeeping association near you to make contact with?

Felt nice doing a good turn for the day and didn’t need to give a whole frame. Got a spare over wintered Nuc for sale, so might offer this to her if her colony doesn’t work out.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi hope you find someone local that can help. I had a text from someone local this week, asking if I could spare a frame of eggs - her only hive had become a drone layer.

I asked her to find an old (ideally sterilised) comb and leave it out for me. Looked through one of mine and found a frame that was older with eggs and pollen on. Used a sharp Stanley knife to cut a section and spliced this into her frame (new comb is harder to handle as so soft). Dribbled some wax from a beeswax candle around the edges. Approx 20 or more eggs in the patch, so if her drone layer has enough young bees they should be able to make a new queen. Gave it a light spray with water. Wrapped it up & kept warm (took hot water bottle with me). Took no more than 5-10mins to do. Probably didn’t need to use the beeswax.

Worth asking a local beekeeper if they will do this for you - isn’t there a beekeeping association near you to make contact with?

Felt nice doing a good turn for the day and didn’t need to give a whole frame. Got a spare over wintered Nuc for sale, so might offer this to her if her colony doesn’t work out.

This works as a test frame,Elaine, but OP is looking for numbers, a significant amount of emerging brood to support his failing colony and even that is unlikely to work
OP hasn’t been on the forum since just before Hachi posted the first reply so hasn’t seen any of the discussion.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi hope you find someone local that can help. I had a text from someone local this week, asking if I could spare a frame of eggs - her only hive had become a drone layer.

I asked her to find an old (ideally sterilised) comb and leave it out for me. Looked through one of mine and found a frame that was older with eggs and pollen on. Used a sharp Stanley knife to cut a section and spliced this into her frame (new comb is harder to handle as so soft). Dribbled some wax from a beeswax candle around the edges. Approx 20 or more eggs in the patch, so if her drone layer has enough young bees they should be able to make a new queen.

Pretty pointless exercise in my view - they've obviously got to a stage where the hive is going to be packed with drones and old bees, chances of them raising a decent queen are somewhere between slim and desparate

 

[elainemary]

This works as a test frame,Elaine, but op is looking for numbers, a significant amount of emerging brood to support his failing colony and even that is unlikely to work

Yes I wondered that. She’s fairly experienced so felt I should support her request. Going to text her today to ask if she’d like to buy the Nuc before I advertise it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pretty pointless exercise in my view - they've obviously got to a stage where the hive is going to be packed with drones and old bees, chances of them raising a decent queen are somewhere between slim and desparate

Yes and that’s not what he wanted. He has a queen apparently
It’s a pity he hasn’t come back to clarify and the whole thread is now supposition

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes I wondered that. She’s fairly experienced so felt I should support her request. Going to text her today to ask if she’d like to buy the Nuc before I advertise it.

I was talking about the original posters request for frames sorry I thought you were replying to that

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was talking about the original posters request for frames sorry I thought you were replying to that

Keep up there in the back!

 

[oliver90owner]

Re wellies: It’s not sensible to wear trousers tucked into them - what happens if bees get spilled into them?

If wearing wellies I always put the trousers over the boots and, if not elasticated at the ankles, make sure that bees cannot get between the material and the boot. KISS principle.

Especially important with nasty bees. I've never been stung through a wellington boot!

The poster does not seem to be a proper beekeeper, by the usual definition.

 

[pargyle]

Keep up there in the back!

I've got a colony with a drone layer ... rather than tip them out can anyone lend me a set of 10 14 x 12 frames complete with bees and a queen - you can have them back next spring ....