Wood Preserver

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FenBee 

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Hombre, Linseed oil sounds interesting, but can as you say be a bit sticky. I was thinking of using mineral oil, as this is good at preserving wood and keeping moisture out. Has anyone on the forum any experience of using mineral oil with bees?

According to Wikipedia, the oil can have low toxicity, See ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil
 

Hombre 

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Hi Fenbee,
I never actually made the connection between mineral oil, FGMO aka Liquid parafin and baby oil (always thought of that as almond oil). Interesting link. I think that raw linseed oil seals by oxidising, It takes longer to dry than cooked linseed oil which tends to form a sticky film. I understand the point from the link that mineral oil doesn't support mould growth.
I can see that anything that doesn't effectively dry in a reasonable time will be a problem, even if only during handling and getting greasy fingers/gloves.

Maybe I should heed the fact that there are a few favoured products, such as Cuprinol, and join the program, instead of trying to wind the clock back to before these more convenient products were available to us.
 

FenBee 

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Hi Hombre,
The problem with Cuprinol, whilst I am sure it is very effective, is that there is a six week period where it cannot be used, as it takes this long for the volatiles to evaporate ( I guess ).
This is OK if you are not planning on using the hive in the near future, but for Spring / Summer use, it is a restriction. This may also be the case with mineral oils, hence my question.
 

Hivemaker. 

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I prefer to use no treatment of any kind,and leave the timber natural.enough chemicals around in the enviroment allready without adding more. but if i was bound to use something for cosmetic reasons it would be cuprinol clear,or perhaps dip them in boiling wax.
 
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goodbobby 

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Cuprinol's response re their bee friendly products

I wrote to Cuprinol last year and this was the response:

"Cuprinol has commissioned a study at the National Bee Unit of the Central Science Laboratory to evaluate the new formulation of preservers we have.

Cuprinol Garden Wood Preserver (DP) Red Cedar and Cuprinol Trade Decorative Wood Preserver (T) Red Cedar were applied by brush application and Cuprinol Trade Low Odour Wood Preserver Clear (T) was applied by dip coating.

In all cases treated hive parts showed no toxicity (up to 6 weeks from treatment) to bees or brood after exposure to these hive parts

NB Do not treat outside of hives whilst bees are in the hive!

Decorative Preserver can also be used on external surfaces.

Avoid GS&F/Exterior Preserver as may taint honey

I hope this information is useful. If you have any queries or need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me at the Technical Advice Centre on 0870 444 1111."



Yours sincerely

Helen Dooley
Technical Advisor (Cuprinol Hammerite Polycell)
Technical Advice Centre,
AkzoNobel,
Wexham Road,
Slough, Berkshire
SL2 5DS
Phone: +44 (0) 870 444 1111 (DIY)
+44 (0) 870 242 1100 (Trade)
Fax: +44 (0) 870 444 0660

http://www.dulux.co.uk http://www.icipaints.co.uk http://www.polycell.co.uk http://www.hammerite.co.uk http://www.cuprinol.co.uk
 
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Melbourne12 

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We use Cuprinol Clear, but I wouldn't have a problem with Sadolin or similar products. If you look at the Material Safety Sheet for any paint or woodstain, there will be a series of COSHH R codes. Code R57 is "Toxic to Bees". So if it says R57, avoid. Otherwise it'll be OK.
 

Brosville 

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they said that about organophosphates!............. being of the "avoid chemicals wherever possible" persuasion, I happily use boiled linseed oil, either neat, or applied hot with a smidgeon of beeswax melted in it.
However, life is not always simple - some unscrupulous suppliers flog what is claimed to be "boiled" linseed, which contains a raft of likely toxic chemicals - "Rustin's", however is totally free of nasties, and is "food grade" (I 'phoned and checked)
I've used boiled linseed on sheds for years without problems, and have never suffered any mould growths or similar. Best to use boiled, as raw linseed oil takes forever to dry.
 

Hombre 

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Brosville,
I stand to be corrected, but to the very best of my knowledge, the term "boiled linseed oil" is actually a misnomer and has never referred to linseed oil that has been boiled in any way. The product is faster drying than raw linseed oil and the effect is achieved with additives/volatiles, but I know not what.
Dave Cushman, predictably, has written on the subject and praises raw linseed oil, but observes that the boiled linseed oil is apt to form a sticky skin, possibly due to the faster/earlier oxidisation of the product.

Raw linseed oil is not as readily available in large DIY superstores, where small bottles of boiled Linseed oil is available.

Sure the French would have a field day with "Boiled linseed oil" if they were interested. Just like they screamed about "Ice Cream" and "Creamed Honey".
 

Brosville 

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I was very pleasantly surprised when I 'phoned Rustin's - they put me straight through to their technical bod - apparently theirs is literally heated, and has oxygen bubbled through it, and that is all, no chemical additives....... and he did assure me it is genuinely "food grade" (edible). I'd agree, it is an utter disgrace that some "boiled linseed oil" preparations contain gazillions of noxious additives to speed drying - I've found the natural boiled stuff is "touch dry" in 3-4 days
I also agree about the general gross abuse of the english language allowed in a most misleading way, particularly by manufacturers - dialogue from conversation with agricultural feed rep..........
"what colour would you like the yolks then?" - (proffering paint-type colourswatches)
"would this perchance be synthetic chemical colouring?"
"yes sir"
"I want a feed free of antibiotics, coccidiostats, DPM and any synthetic colourants, is there an alternative?"
"yessir - canthaxanthins?"
"would these be natural?"
"yessir!"
"natural, as in naturally derived?"
"no sir, they are synthesised, but as they are a copy of a naturally occurring substance, we're allowed to say they are "natural" - (sic):svengo:
 

Rosti 

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I know, I know, naughty boy, but I have not been using cuprinol clear. My out apiary can be seen from certain locations against a hawthorn hedge back drop so for the hives located there I have combined green and brown fence preserver to create a camoflage effect. Live bees are absolutely no good to me if they've been nicked!
 

BDaddy 

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Thats the one I use on my hive. Cuprinol have a section on their site outlining which product to use for hives. Cuprinol clear has been passed as suitable. It soaks in well. Just for good measure I also put a coat of raw linseed oil thinned with white spirit on top of the cuprinol when dry. I dont treat the interior of the hive other than a bit of vaseline on the edges to reduce propolis sticking etc. Water off a ducks back!!
 

Hawklord 

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Those Cedar hives stand out like a saw thumb so I used Ronseal Fence Life green to make them less conspicuous. It said it was fine around animals and plants once dry and it doesn't seem to have any adverse affects on the bees.
 

Hivemaker. 

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How to preserve hives naturally




"All measures that are taken to ensure a long life of wood fall under the definition wood preservation (timber treatment). Apart from structural wood preservation measures, there are a number of different (chemical) preservatives and processes (also known as timber treatment or lumber treatment) that can extend the life of wood, timber, wood structures or engineered wood. These generally increase the durability and resistance from being destroyed by insects or fungus.

As proposed by Richardson, treatment of wood has been practised for almost as long as the use of wood itself. Some accounts reach back to the beginning of recorded history. For example the Bible in Genesis, 6:13-14 “And God said unto Noah… make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.” There are also records of wood preservation reaching back to ancient Greece during Alexander the Great’s rule, where bridge wood was soaked in olive oil. The Romans also protected their wood by brushing their ship hulls with tar. During the Industrial Revolution wood preservation became a corner stone of the wood processing industry. Inventors and scientists such as Bethell, Boucherie, Burnett and Kyan made historic developments in wood preservation, with the preservative solutions and processes.

Linseed oil
In recent years in Australia and New Zealand, Linseed has been incorporated in preservative formulations as a solvent and water repellent to 'envelope treat' timber. This involves just treating the outer 5mm of the cross-section of a timber member with preservative eg Permethrin 25:75, leaving the core untreated. While not as effective as CCA or LOSP methods, envelope treatments are significantly cheaper as they use far less preservative. Major preservative manufacturers add a blue dye to envelope treatments. There is an on-going promotional campaign in Australia for this type of treatment. Linseed oil is used to preserve Wood fences, log cabins, and wood furniture.(Such woods as Willow, Pine, oak and exc.) The function of linseed oil as a preservative is believed to be related to its action as a water repellent and drying agent rather than a direct biocidal activity. A number of European companies have developed natural-oil-only-based treatments; no synthetic preservative such as permethrin is added. Menz Holz OHT use autoclave impregnation with linseed, sunflower and rapeseed oil for 6 to 8 hours.
Wood treated with linseed oil is resistant to denting and scratches and is easily repaired, but the surface is not as hard as a modern varnish, and the wood will slowly absorb moisture if allowed to stay wet.
Boiled linseed oil is used as a paint binder or as a wood finish on its own. Heating the oil causes it to polymerize and oxidize, effectively making it thicker and shortening its drying time. Today most products labeled as "boiled linseed oil" are a combination of raw linseed oil, petroleum-based solvent and metallic dryers. The use of metallic dryers makes boiled linseed oil inedible. There are some products available that contain only heat-treated linseed oil, without exposure to oxygen. Heat treated linseed oil is thicker and dries very slowly. This grade of linseed oil is usually labeled as "polymerized" or "stand" oil, though some types may still be labeled as "boiled".
From: Wikipedia.com

Efficacy of hot wax dipping
"Robinson and French (1984) indicated that some apiarists found that hot wax dipped treatments lasted in excess of 15 years before retreatment of the material became necessary. Some beekeepers have indicated that well-treated boxes will last for more than 20 years before further treatment is required.
The extent of microcrystalline wax penetration was determined in trials conducted in Australia by Robinson and French (1986)"
From "HOT WAX DIPPING OF BEEHIVE COMPONENTS For preservation & sterilisation "



Linseed Oil - Its Uses and Limitations
Bee Hive Woodwork Preservation

Also from Michael bush web site below.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm
 

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