Winter Losses

[Finman]

.
The wintering begins in late summer.

1, you must have in August a box full of bees that they can make the box full of brood.
.....if the box is half full honey, they have enough enough room to rear winterbees.

2. The cluster will be same size as brood area before wintering.

3. A box full of bees takes care itself in winter. If you have honey frames from the hive, you may return them to winter food when most of bees have emerged. Or you give them in Spring to bees.

4. Well insulated and protected from winds it must be very easy to over winter the colony recarding the temperatue. Varroa, nosema, queen losses and mony others kill hives even in expriences hands.

5. Early splits of colonies is wasting. Colonies are never so strong after winter that you can split the colony. The amount of bees reduces in winter and it is well done if the hive occupye the whole box.

6. If you do not want honey, it is same (and shame) what you do with bees. It does not need any skills.
. If your hive die you probably get a swarm next summer. Trust on that.

 

[hemo]

My remarks may be seen as scathing or unhelpful but the words that come to my mind are husbandry,husbandry!!! It will probably be a lesson learnt, but a hard way to learn one. I still stand by my remarks as indiactions were realised in the original post that they were in trouble well before there demise.

 

[mbc]

Any beekeeper who has kept bees for a number of years and suffered no losses is telling porkies ! Death is a fact of life. I, for one, am crossing my fingers and hoping for the best for all my colonies but know from experience that 100% will not make it, they have so far, but the greatest number of casualities usually occur in March.

 

[MJBee]

Any beekeeper who has kept bees for a number of years and suffered no losses is telling porkies ! Death is a fact of life. I, for one, am crossing my fingers and hoping for the best for all my colonies but know from experience that 100% will not make it, they have so far, but the greatest number of casualities usually occur in March.

With one amendment:- ....that 100% MAY not make it... live in hope.

A much wiser person that I said "LEARN from the mistakes of others as you will not live long enough to make them all yourself"

 

[psafloyd]

I’d been worried about this colony since the summer. It was a split that never really got well established and I agonised about uniting them with a strong colony in Sep.

This is farely typical of beeks who expect a week colony to servive the rigours of over wintering and its still only January !!!! You have only got yourself to blame, its just sheer stupidity. How others can say its sad or its bad luck its nothing short of ridiculous.

You must share the skill for maintaining 100% survival rates, then. I'd be interested to read that in a separate thread.

Even experienced beekeepers lose colonies and we do not know how weak (yes, that's how you spell it) the colony was, as that is not indicated in the post.

I too have what was a weak colony that has done very well thus far and is going great guns on warmer Days. It has, however required feeding through the winter. But even one of my strong ones has had to bed fed recently, as the mild weather has resulted in them getting through their stores very quickly.

Let's see what the final tally is in spring when the real shakedown will be complete.

 

[The Cumbrian]

bed fed recently,

I think you pamper your bees far too much. Feeding them in bed indeed they will be wanting the papers brought up next!

 

[eddiespangle]

eddie - you say it was a weak split that never got going. how were they housed? nuc or hive? poly or wood?

They were hives in a commerical hive. When I treated them to some OA they looked fine andIi thought that they'd make it - I gave them some candy just to be on the safe side.

 

[eddiespangle]

I’d been worried about this colony since the summer. It was a split that never really got well established and I agonised about uniting them with a strong colony in Sep.

This is farely typical of beeks who expect a week colony to servive the rigours of over wintering and its still only January !!!! You have only got yourself to blame, its just sheer stupidity. How others can say its sad or its bad luck its nothing short of ridiculous.

Hemo - thanks, I think!

 

[Hivemaker.]

When I treated them to some OA they looked fine

Did you by any chance check them for nosema.

 

[eddiespangle]

No I didn’t check for Nosema – I don’t have the equipment nor the expertise. There was some evidence of diarrhoea in the hive though I put this down to the bees ingesting the candy I'd fed to them. Nosema did cross my mind but I don’t think it was the cause of this colony’s demise.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

with slow build up I would check for Nosema, happy to help out

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

At the risk of starting an arguement I must say this is one of the worst posts I've ever come across. No need and shame on you for being so unpleasant

I know some people don't mince their words but there's no need to create such bad feelings on an otherwise wonderful forum.

I read it last night but was almost sickened by the comment as it was the end of a very long shift and I was tired and grouchy. I didn't reply then O.K. maybe sometimes sympathy is given to readily but a kick in the teeth?

Maybe Hemo was a bit scathing - no very scathing - but until new beeks get the message that:

They should not try do try to do things which might be difficult for an experienced beek.

That they are very decidely prone to over-estimating the strength of a colony. No previous experience, or simply get caught out in year two).

That colonies do die over winter (I've read that 75% of new colonies fail in the first twelve months of founding - perhaps the largest fraction of these would be likely be where the winter conditions finished them off or left them too weak to recover in the spring).

That there are simple steps to be taken if the colony is less than 'really strong' (read Skyhook's post above where he is not being rediculous at all. As long as the compartment is sealed at the top, it is effectively a large, well insulated nuc hive).

Sheer inexperience, not the version posted, but the warnings have been plastered all over the forum, again and again. Us older beeks (as in years of experience, perhaps) have all suffered this fate, in the hopefully distant past; we have BTDT and keep warning new beeks of the need to walk before running.

New beeks, please read and heed the warnings; use polynucs (yes, the paines version can presumably be made into a 'seven framer' by careful cutting and trimming with a very sharp blade?) My nucs are all on 14 x 12 frames - cheating really? (compared to deeps?) I don't think so, just that much stronger nucs, more space for stores and less need to interfere with them during the winter.

Winter preparations are the most important part of beekeeping, IMO. Without, you may not have a colony to expand in spring, the bees may not be healthy enough, the chance of colony survival will diminish in direct inverse proportion to the number of times opened and disturbed (even more particularly so, if the colony is a weak one) in the winter months.

Let nobody think that anyone, apart from those lucky few who learned the trade under the ever watchfull eye of a competant old hand, has never made a mistake through inexperience. Sometimes it is easy to correct, occasionally the colony fails.

Two out of three, should the other two survive to spring, is not that bad for a beginner.

RAB

Yes RAB as you can be scathing, but you follow it up with a few learning points/advice which in the end is constructive in your own unique style
as this post

My remarks may be seen as scathing or unhelpful but the words that come to my mind are husbandry,husbandry!!! It will probably be a lesson learnt, but a hard way to learn one. I still stand by my remarks as indiactions were realised in the original post that they were in trouble well before there demise.

Not blunt, not just unhelpful, but IMHO just plain nasty

 

[The Cumbrian]

:
Not blunt, not just unhelpful, but IMHO just plain nasty

 

[PuckUk]

What Next...

I'm almost too scared to ask!!

I'm in a similar position having lost a late Nuc that was introduced to a National Hive and appeared to build really well... however, a second feeding of fondant this afternoon has confirmed my middle hive has been lost!

What to do next with the frames of part used honey and dirty wax? I need to be ready for an early start with this hive, ready for Spring.

Do I reuse the comb or best discarding given that I cannot at this point prove the lost colony has not succumbed to disease?

Be kind...

 

[oliver90owner]

I need to be ready for an early start with this hive, ready for Spring.

Err, why?

Simply have new frames and wax ready?

Spring is still a couple of months away, possibly; so plenty of time.

If you were needing to feed fondant, it did not have much stores?

You could simply bin the old hive contents, scorch the box (if timber).

Whatever you decide, I reckon you have got more than a month to execute your plan.

Old combs could be bagged in plastic and stashed in a freezer until such times as they can be sorted.

Yes, they may need to be burned, or they may need to be fumigated with 80% ethanoic acid (or other), or they may be just re-usable. Err on the safe side.

RAB

 

[REDWOOD]

Last year I had 1 hive and got it through the winter ok with just its winter feed and no fondant but a beekeeper I know lost 6 out of 6 hives he said it was his worst losses, he also fed his bees for winter and gave them fondant mid winter, this year I have 3 hives 2 where cast swarms in june but built up well for winter and I have fed them there winter feed and also gave them fondant, last week, went to check the fondant and my strongest hive giong into the winter had eaten it all but the swarm hives had only nibbled a bit of it, does this mean that the larger of the 3 have consumed most of their stores

 

[iand]

does this mean that the larger of the 3 have consumed most of their stores

Not necessarily, they may have just latched onto the fondant you have given them.
Heft them, if a light hive then yes they have eaten their stores.
Middling to heavy then yes OK BUT are the stores handily available.
Think on with this cold weather they could end up being isolated from their food.
So until you can assess the situation a bit more, slap some fondant to make sure they can keep going in the meantime.


Ian

 

[REDWOOD]

Thanks Ian, I have given them some more last wekend just before the cold snap and will be checking them next weekend

 

[For want of a better word]

What to do next with the frames of part used honey and dirty wax?

Put them into deep-freezer....... colony succumbed to weakness due to low numbers and very sudden cold snap... not due to lack of stores.. or disease?.. thymolated so not for human consumption.....

Feed the stores to another colony?
Destroy them... would make excellent firelighters....

What would YOU do?

The request is for constructive criticism !
Making the most of a lost colony...................