Windbreak netting distance & height

[user 819]

One has to look elsewhere bar the weather, firstly I would consider Q age or if they were SS unmated or failed.

 

[manek]

Were they quite packed with stores in autumn?

Yes, I always leave them a nadired super. Starvation wasn't wot done it.

 

[ericbeaumont]

can't say I'm absolutely clear about the mechanism but I am fairly confident that environmental factors were at play

Size of nest (esp. in relation to box volume) & age of queen entering winter are two factors that are fundamental to survival.

A large nest will have the bodies to thermoregulate effectvely, no matter the weather, and a young queen will lay more winter bees in late summer.

Solid floors may have helped marginals to maintain nest temp.

 

[pargyle]

I know it has been mentioned previously (and derided by one well known member) but there have been reports of quite a few unexplained winter losses from different parts of the country ... colonies that have been treated for varroa, that have plenty of stores in the hive and no obvious signs of disease (Nosema etc.). Does make you wonder whether it is premature queen failuer ? And if so .. why ?

 

[Antipodes]

Yes, I always leave them a nadired super. Starvation wasn't wot done it.

No, I was thinking the opposite of starvation actually. I was thinking a possible overfeeding situation where there was so much honey/sugar syrup being stored in autumn that the queen has nowhere to lay and numbers of nurse bees and winter bees are way down.
Here at the moment it is autumn and I am nadiring supers experimentally to see if the bees will put the honey up above them. What they are doing is packing it all around the brood and I can't see any space for the queen to lay. That's what they seem to do at this time of the year. Nothing much is going into the top super and pretty much all the honey they are moving from underneath them is getting stuffed anywhere they can near the brood area. They have nowhere to put much pollen either, which is their most important food as well.
We get a little bit of ivy in gardens here but I can imagine over there where you have a year with a good ivy flow in autumn and also the beekeeper feeding prescriptively, the hive is going to be packed to billy-o with honey.
"Not enough bees" may have killed them as opposed to wind and rain. I have an apiary in a windy, elevated, reasonably wet, cold and exposed site where our strong westerlies blow fairly relentlessly (I'm in the roaring 40's which is one of, if not the strongest wind current in the world), and I've never lost a colony there.

https://www.surfertoday.com/environment/what-are-the-roaring-forties

 

[user 819]

I think a few likely feed far too much, too early and don't give much thought in UK about later ivy flows that go on longer due to milder Autumns . The feeding too much also reduces laying space so crucial winter brood isn't raised in enough numbers.

A good ivy flow can easily provide 20 - 40lbs of stores if there is room for it, though amongst some beeks (maybe quite a lot more then some) there is a myth that bees can't use the set ivy come spring. Where they get these stupid ideas from I don't know ?

Over here there are hedges of the stuff as well as it climbing into the rafters of trees.

 

[Sutty]

This might well do a similar job at a tenth of the price.
https://www.diy.com/departments/oyp...esh-fencing-1mtr-x-25mtr/5056233250410_BQ.prd

I've used the orange version of that but UV rots it pretty quickly.

 

[Moobee]

I know it has been mentioned previously (and derided by one well known member) but there have been reports of quite a few unexplained winter losses from different parts of the country ... colonies that have been treated for varroa, that have plenty of stores in the hive and no obvious signs of disease (Nosema etc.). Does make you wonder whether it is premature queen failuer ? And if so .. why ?

Ive been wondering the same thing. I had four colonies in my out apiary that have just dwindled and died for no apparent reason. I didn't feed in the autumn, they had their Apiguard in early September after the last of the honey was off and an OA vape in December. A full super was nadired on each hive and weight was good.
The only thing I added was fondant in December (as insurance) by which time I would hope the queen had laid up all bees needed but when I opened them up recently they had dwindled and died. No signs of disease, varroosis, nosema etc.
Rather than queen failure (as these were all 2023 queens and laying very well), is it possible that the the incredibly warm autumn and early winter meant the queen carried on producing worker bees and 'winter' bees weren't produced/developed?
The weather is causing so many anomalies in nature, maybe the bees are just as confused?

 

[Moobee]

Aware that this has been discussed here before, but my question is slightly different. This last winter I lost three hives in one of my apiaries, all identical symptoms, and I'm convinced this was due to exposure: it's a windy site especially in winter. It faces south but that's also where the wind comes from.

I plan to re-stock it but want to prevent a recurrence, obviously, by installing windbreak netting. The apiary site is about 8m by 6m and surrounded by a wooden paling fence around three sides, and a hedge behind. It's not a public space and there are no bee flight path issues but I'm curious as to what height I should install the netting, which I think is the best and most cost-effective solution. The fence is about 2-3m away from the three hives (or will be once they're back in situ). WIll this be far enough or close enough for the netting to be effective?

Thoughts and experiences?

I live by a very windy coast and use scaffold netting which is cheap as chips and I have around all sides of my home apiary to 6 feet (just to stop them whizzing past my ears as I go to the garage). You can buy it in big rolls and it's UV stable. I also use it to keep butterflies and pigeons off the veg. It's been around my hives for 4 years and apart from fading a bit, is keeping the wind off. Also come in various colours!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it would take more than a bit of netting to contain the carnage when SWMBO breaks wind

 

[user 819]

Apiguard can be so-so in it's effectiveness , I gave up using it several years ago after losing colonies and have ever since simply vaped OA for my treatments.
As for nadiring I don't bother, I prefer to extract any thing left or unsealed and feed it back properly above their heads so they actually take it down and store it, that way one knows for sure they are dealing with it.
Come mid October I may think about excess sugar feed if I feel the ivy is slow or colonies heft lightly , typically I will have cast an eye on the main stores within, during late Sept and calculated in lbs how much they have .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

nadiring a super of stores, especially if you do it too late can end up with them having a lot of stores below them and later on in the winter the bees getting isolated from it. I only nadir supers with the odd scrap of stores in or frames found with unripe honey in during extraction.

 

[user 819]

Personally if I had a super of stores I was going to leave for the bees , it stays at the top with no QX . If the Q lays up there in spring so what, it is of little consequence and matters not.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A full super was nadired on each hive and weight was good.

When did you nadir the shallow?

 

[Antipodes]

Someone over there lost 37 out of 40 colonies (see link below).
What's going on guys?

https://oxnatbees.wordpress.com/2023/11/05/winter-losses-not-quite-what-they-seem/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

goes with the territory for the anti treaters

 

[ericbeaumont]

Someone over there lost 37 out of 40 colonies.
What's going on guys?

The explanation for losses does not make much sense to me: late autumn warm weather, ivy, minor flooding and city warmth are not unique to Oxford, but commonplace factors throughout the UK. On the other hand, it is stated that the Oxford colonies didn't have varroa...

Quote:
Cause of losses
The obvious unusual environmental factors are:

• Last Autumn was exceptionally warm for several weeks longer than usual, resulting in a long flow of ivy, followed by a sudden sharp drop to winter temperatures.
• Oxford is in a flood plain surrounded by hills, and has minor flooding every few years.
• Oxford has a significant heat island effect. Events like cherry trees blossoming and swarms occur about 2 weeks before north Oxfordshire.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

On the other hand, it is stated that the Oxford colonies didn't have varroa...

 

[Sutty]

the Oxford colonies didn't have varroa...

Clearly varroa must have evolved into a symbiotic species, and the lack of them killed the colonies!

 

[Antipodes]

goes with the territory for the anti treaters

Yeah but the 37 out of 40 was a nearby conventional apiary.
Do higher losses over a given winter in the UK correlate with a higher than usual autumn ivy flow perhaps?