Wind proof/waterproof paper

[Mikey bee]

Does anyone know where I can get this ?
I've seen it used on YouTube in countries like Finland where winters are severe to say the least. I want to get some to protect my hives for this coming winter.
Any help much appreciated,
Mike

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have one wooden hive with a loose jacket made from a cut up cheap tarp from tarpaflex

 

[Finman]

Does anyone know where I can get this ?
I've seen it used on YouTube in countries like Finland where winters are severe

That video thing is very exceptional. But many beekeepers wrap tarpaper around the hive because his father did the same.

The idea is international. Perhaps tarpaper protect paint layer of wooden hives. Canadians have serious matter in this issue, because their winters are severe and they do not use insulated hives. They do not know much about polyhives.

I wonder how tarpaper can protect anything during couple of months in British winter.

Nowadays all use insulated hives and most of them do not use wrapping.


I use geo construction textile. It is against wind and birds. Snow stucks more or less entrance of hive. When I put the textile over the hive, I need not think, do they get oxygen. Protection is over the hive 2-3 months.

This year I must add woodpekker protection onto hives.

.

.

 

[Barbarian]

Mikey,
In a way this is a double question ----- windproof ---- waterproof.

Why do you think you need it ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Does anyone know where I can get this ?

Yes, usually marketed under the trade name POLYTHENE

 

[Hivemaker.]

Tar paper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_paper

 

[pargyle]

Does anyone know where I can get this ?
I've seen it used on YouTube in countries like Finland where winters are severe to say the least. I want to get some to protect my hives for this coming winter.
Any help much appreciated,
Mike

Some people use polythene (feed sacks, HD poly bin liners) to protect against damage by woodpeckers but there should be no need to wrap your hive in poly unless you know there is a woodpecker problem in your area (and woodpeckers attacking hives is a 'learned' behaviour so not all woodpeckers do it !).

Polythene wrapping is not going to add any real insulation benefit ... Kingspan on top of the crownboard or a Kingspan bonnet (after DerekM) will be much better.

Tar paper on hives is very much a North American/Canadian thing ... but I don't think it does a great deal of good ... seems (IMHO) to be a throwback to the middle of the last century when tarpaper was used extensively to waterproof packages that were sent overseas ... In my early years of working at Woolworths we used to see a lot of tarpaper on the outside of parcels that came from Taiwan etc (things like Flip flops, plimsolls and toys). It presumably was a source of cheap waterproofing but why would you want to waterproof a hive anyway ... if it's not built to keep the rain out then it needs some attention rather than papering over the cracks ...

 

[Philip]

I think you will find practically the paper lacks durability, it is principally used as a lining rather than an outer protection.

As noted above a tarpaulin will prove more durable, and if you are willing to tailor it as Erichalfbee has it will prove more durable.

I covered a nuc last winter with a tarp and also a an old eiderdown for insulation and they sailed thro the winter. I did not expect it to survive really.

whether you actually need it however only you can really judge.

 

[Mikey bee]

I thought I needed it because the location of a couple of hives is a bit exposed to the elements. Last winter with all the snow the hives took a battering.
It may make more sense then, to move hives to more sheltered location ??

 

[Hivemaker.]

Tar paper on hives is very much a North American/Canadian thing ... but I don't think it does a great deal of good .

From what Mike writes, it keeps out water from the joints of the hive when they are buried in snow for many months on end, and increases solar heat when they are not.

 

[pargyle]

From what Mike writes, it keeps out water from the joints of the hive when they are buried in snow for many months on end, and increases solar heat when they are not.

Well ... as there are probably only one or two locations in the UK (Top of Scaffell Pike or Ben Nevis for instance) that will be buried in snow for many months of the year then I would suggest that this bears out my original comment.

In addition, wrapping tightly in a waterproof membrane will also retain any moisture that is in the timber of a hive ... even cedar will rot if it is not allowed to 'breath' and pine can go rotten over a very short period.

If the joints in a hive are not up to keeping the rain out then either the bees are not propolising as well as they should or the hive joints need a serious look ....

As for Solar gain ... well ... paint the hive black if you must but solar gain is a bit of a red herring in beekeeping ....

 

[Finman]

.
When you wrap the hives. Note that often wrapping material gather condensation water on inner side or material. It makes more harm than good.

Good in tar paper is that you cannot see the condensation.

 

[Mikey bee]

I think weighing all options up, I will try and cover the hives in some form of protection. It can't do any harm, and might as folk say, at least help with waterproofing and solar warmth etc.
When you loose hives in the winter (not through lack of food etc) I do question is there more I could have done? - so it's off to the local DIY store!

 

[Finman]

As for Solar gain ... well ... paint the hive black if you must but solar gain is a bit of a red herring in beekeeping ....

Yeah!! Sun is very effective during nights and clowdy days.

 

[Luminos]

If it worries you that much, Mikeybee, why not get double-walled hives?
Or polyhives?

 

[Hivemaker.]

As for Solar gain ... well ... paint the hive black if you must but solar gain is a bit of a red herring in beekeeping ....

Perhaps those North American beekeepers just don't have a clue then, but i think the idea is to warm the hives just enough for the clusters to move to fresh stores more easily.

 

[pargyle]

Perhaps those North American beekeepers just don't have a clue then, but i think the idea is to warm the hives just enough for the clusters to move to fresh stores more easily.

Bill Bielby ... Home Honey Production ... 1977 ... Page 44 .." for succesful overwintering ... You can never have enough insulation ,,, and hives should be completely draughtproof".

So ... I agree with the above ... I just don't think impermeable tarpaper is the right medium. Please don't put any more words into my mouth than you already have... I said nothing about USA beekeepers not having a clue.

If people feel the need to wrap hives to wind and water proof then my recommendation would be to use one of the modern semi-permeable membranes that get used on modern house roofs ... they keep moisture out but air can pass through. Tar paper was invented in Victorian times when they had none of the current technology available ... doesn't make a lot of sense to even consider using it to me.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Tar paper was invented in Victorian times when they had none of the current technology available ... doesn't make a lot of sense to even consider using it to me.

Cost maybe?

Here is the post... http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=378099&postcount=9921

No doubt, but the real benefit of the black paper is solar gain. We make no attempt to insulate our hives...except for above the crown board. The colonies come through the winter with nice clusters despite the very cold temperatures and months with no cleansing flights. Surely we leave more honey on for winter than you, but they made it, and through proper management, that feed is in the broodnest anyway.

I'm sure our management systems are different, but so is our climate. We do what we have to and we learn what works best over time. Over insulated colonies don't do well here because of moisture issues, and are usually soaking wet and moldy come spring. Letting them cool off and giving them plenty of ventilation promotes quiet clusters, and yields healthy, dry bees.

Just an honest question...Why do your bees require such extra insulation, when your climate is no where nearly severe as mine?

 

[pargyle]

Cost maybe?

Here is the post... http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=378099&postcount=9921

"Just an honest question...Why do your bees require such extra insulation, when your climate is no where nearly severe as mine? " From Mike Palmer ...

Well, the answer is, that the UK has moved on ... 60% of beekeepers on this forum insulate above the crownboard and in my (albeit limited) research the practice of winter ventilation with open feeder holes and matchsticks seems to be an antiquated idea practiced by only a few die-hard, we've always done it that way, beekeepers.

Tar paper falls into the same category IMHO. Like I said ... there's better materials and solar gain IS a red herring (Bless him ... for once I agree with Finman !!).

Poly hives are now becoming the favoured hive of many commercial beekeepers and hobbyists ... and they are insulated and appear to be more successful in a whole range of ways.

Perhaps North America just need to catch up a bit ....their beekeeping is far more spread out than ours and we benefit from a good idea percolating through the associations/forums/personal contact in the UK very quickly ... that is quickly in beekeeping terms of course. I think, as well, there are more hobbyist beeks in the UK who are prepared to try different ideas ...

 

[itma]

As DerekM has pointed out, while black objects do gain more heat when the sun is shining, they actually lose heat faster than say white ones when it isn't.


An apiary on on exposed site isn't on a very good site for the winter - however good it may be in summer.
Some beekeepers do bring their bees "off the hill" for the winter, and move them to better sheltered locations for the winter. (But do try and avoid 'frost pockets'.)

As Luminos points out, one can buy "better insulated than usual" hives - made out of foam plastic (the forum tends to call them poly hives) to most of the standard designs. The pretty (but expensive) WBC hive has two wooden skins (with an airgap between) to protect the bees.
North Americans can be touchingly traditional, clinging to the old familiar ways, long after better solutions become available.



If you have Green Woodpeckers in your locality, and seek to protect your hives by the 'plastic wrapping' method, may I suggest that you investigate Tyvek roofing membrane. Kinda like Goretex, it is waterproof but allows moisture to escape - and its smooth surface denies the Woodpecker a grip to perch. Its not expensive, especially if you can scrounge offcuts from a building site!