will 0.5 mile make much differance - OSR

[beesleybees]

Hi,

I do a bit of shooting for a local farmer and his brother. Im in a bit of a dilema!!

Im going to ask both farmers can i put a couple of hive on there land. One farmer does not have any rape on his land but there is a field thats directly south that has rape on it. This area i feel i more secure but the field of rape is 0.5 miles away

The other farmer has rape directly on his land so im guessing it would be far easier for the bees to forage. This land is a bit out of the way but would probably yield more honey

so what would you do if you where me and what is the increase/decrease in honey yield compared to being sited on rape and being 0.5 miles away

 

[drex]

I don't think half a mile is either here nor there. Obviously if they were actually on site it would be less work for them, hence more honey, but then you have problem of logistics.

Would have to move them away 3 miles first for few weeks, then back to the OSR field, otherwise they would fly back to your original apiary site. Rape here is just starting to come into flower and you would then miss most of the harvest if your timing is the same.

Just realised I might not have read your OP correctly. How far is your apiary from the OSR at the moment?

 

[Cazza]

I haven't ever had OSR closer than half a mile, usually 0.5 to 1 mile. I would expect a good harvest at that distance.
If it was me I'd go for security over yield.
Cazza

 

[Finman]

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I know that the yield will be 30-40% smaller than without distance.


1 km flying distance drops the yield 50%.
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[wightbees]

whats the maths on this then Finman?
if 1 km = less 50%
0.5km = less 25% is what i would of thought due to 50% less flying time.

 

[RoofTops]

Does it really matter to you if the yield drops even 50%? 3 colonies in an OSR field could give at least 200 pounds of honey if all goes well and the colonies are strong and don't try and swarm.

If you can harvest, extract, store, cream, bottle and sell this amount then go for it and put the hives in the OSR field - but otherwise I wouldn't bother.

 

[Rosti]

I haven't ever had OSR closer than half a mile, usually 0.5 to 1 mile. I would expect a good harvest at that distance.
If it was me I'd go for security over yield.
Cazza

 

[Finman]

Does it really matter to you if the yield drops even 50%?
In money 600 £ ?

3 colonies in an OSR field could give at least 200 pounds of .

does it matter if you get 200 pounds or 200 kilos?

When yield drops 50% out of 400 pounds, it is
in money 600 £ ?

To situate hives in right place is one of the profound skills in beekeeping.

.

 

[Finman]

whats the maths on this then Finman?
if 1 km = less 50%
0.5km = less 25% is what i would of thought due to 50% less flying time.

Tailwind or headwind

If you have nursed beed and compared honey yields, you sure notice that it is not maths. To me it is only 40 years experience on rape fields. My special hobby is to learn about pastures because honey comes from pastures, not from bottom boards.

I could represent quite much knowledge what features in landscape drops the possible yield.
The differenec is often 3 fold even 5 fold. 2 fold difference is not much.

For example rape yield is very sentive to winds. When you follow bees' working on flowers you see how slow it is in windy landscape.

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[Finman]

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The best yield what I have got in short time was 3 hives on fireweed pastures. They got the yield inside the radius of 500 metres. That area it is 77 hectares.

in 3 weeks each 3 hives got 240 pounds honey = 700 pounds together.


At same time:
- You may compare to another places 2 huge hives on sandy pastures, each minus - 30 pounds.

- 3 miles away on fireweed + 30 ha rape = 60 pounds per hive. too dry soil.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Have you considered the quality of honey rather than just quantity? None of my hives were particularly near (though there was some within a 3 mile radius) to OSR fields last year and it's looking like the same will happen this year.

For sure there was less honey, but it meant that the bees were foraging from a greater variety of plants and trees and the resulting honey was better quality.

It didn't set rock solid for a start and it had a better taste IMHO.

 

[Winker]

does it matter if you get 200 pounds or 200 kilos?

When yield drops 50% out of 400 pounds, it is
in money 600 £ ?

To situate hives in right place is one of the profound skills in beekeeping.

.

Finman, with each passing day you are sounding more like this chap:

Most of the people here are hobby beekeepers, they are not looking to extract every last ounce of honey from every bee they have.

You have a one tracked mind, and its bordering on greed. You may have to earn all your money from beekeeping but most of the people here have day time jobs that pay the bills, they keep bees for enjoyment not financial gain.

 

[Finman]

Have you considered the quality of honey rather than just quantity? .

That is the most important taht you can sell my yield.
Pure rape honey is like sugar. Not value of honey.

How I take care of quality:

1# I build up my hives for early yield, which is dandelion and orchard flowers in early summer. Dandelion honey has a great taste but I need it to give taste to mass of raoe honey.

2# I have endless amount of rape near my cottage but I situate my hives on pastures where I get other tastes too like fireweed, thistle, many kind of weeds and so on.

3# I mix all my yield before I sell it. So it has a fat flavour. Each plant give a thin different flavour and together it will be fat. In that fat formulation rape is valuable basic stuff.

One of the best flavour plant is Angelica sylvestris. Sometimies it gives a special flavour. herather is one of the best too.

Quality and quantilty are not controversy. You handle it with pasture selection. Summer is long. Rape blooms only 3 weeks.

 

[Finman]

Finman, with each passing day you are sounding more like this chap:

but most of the people here have day time jobs that pay the bills, they keep bees for enjoyment not financial gain.

hahahahaha.... I have an academic education and I am not poor. I have retired now. Our pensions have not been cut like in many European countries. hahaha.

Like a policeman in Beemaster forum thought that I am so poor and I am starving. That is why I talk about honey yield.

yes, that I have noticed high level issues here where menthally and fhysically rich beeks are mad to talk:

- how to make 1:1 syrup
- warm or cold way
- can I drill a upper hole into a super box
- white sugar or white sugar.....
- how I shake the bees

- I saw a dead bee on roof
- I saw a first drone flying

Those issues will inspire your from decades to decades.....

.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

It sounds like we both value good quality forage above quantity for our bees Finnman.

Sadly, most of the land around where I live is intensively farmed and there is little wild forage.

Three hives live near a large village where there are lots of gardens with flowers and mature trees which is good for the bees.

The fourth colony live on an organic farm with lots of natural pasture near a very small village. However, with the exception of the small farm that the bees live on, all the surrounding land is wheat/barley and rape grown with herbicides that kill wild flowers.

It's not really practical for me to move my hives as I need to be able to get to them when I don't have access to the car. Therefore, I have started planting wild flowers wherever I can, to improve the land where the bees live.

 

[Finman]

It sounds like we both value good quality forage above quantity for our bees Finnman.

Sadly, most of the land around where I live is intensively farmed and there is little wild forage.
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Yes, I have seen them. I have visited in Enland 6 times and I have drived tere rent car. One I visited in wales too.

Differnece to our nature is big. You have houses, roads, and cultivated fields. If you have wild vegetation, sheep often eate it.

In my country only rape is a palnt which gives yield on fields. Field farming methods have shanged and there are no practically another yeild plants on fields.

My main plant is rape. I can count on it. Then as good is cutted frorest areas, which are full of weeds, thistles, raspberries, fireweed and natural flowers. It takes couple of years after cutting when cutter area has mostly hay and bush. Every year I must filns new areas.

This kind of cutted woods have hundreds of hectares. Some give nectar and some not. It depends on soil. When all kind of rubbish decay after cutting, the area gives good yield 2-3 years.

 

[Finman]

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My landscape of summer cottage:
grey is forest and yellow is field

my cottage situates on Mänttärinmäki in lower right corner of map. From this map to east it is almost forest up to Russian border 50 km away.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

That's a lot of forest Finnman!! I assume that the trees are pine trees (or relatives). I remember someone telling me that pine trees are not great sources of food for bees so if that is the case, then I suppose you have no choice but to move your hives each year to where there is pasture.

And yes, around me, the fields are either wheat/barley or are full of cows/sheep who eat all the flowers

 

[Finman]

That's a lot of forest Finnman!! I assume that the trees are pine trees (or relatives). I remember someone telling me that pine trees are not great sources of food

Trees are pine, pruce and birch. A forest gives nothing but when it has been cutted down it is a splended bee pasture.- If the soil has a thick clay. Flowers get nutritiens from rotten twigs, roots and conopies.

In some places there are 40 metres clay and in some places cliff.

 

[BBG]

It sounds like we both value good quality forage above quantity for our bees Finnman.

Sadly, most of the land around where I live is intensively farmed and there is little wild forage.

Start writing to your MP, MEP, ALL local councillors, ALL District Councillors, the CE of your local and District council, the WI, the Rotary, Lions Club, Freemasons and anybody else you can think might understand - write saying you (and other??) think it would be advantageous for the honeybee, because it's threatened, if the government, local councils etc, etc planted nectar and pollen plants around the edges of fields (not for pheasant cover) along ALL verges of ALL roads and M-Ways instead of this expensive to tend grass that covers the landscape.

It will probably take 20 years for most of them to understand what you're saying, but at least you will know you tried to make the UK a better place for bees. It will also be a pleasure to smell and see the verdant pastures so to speak! Oh and write every year to ALL of them ( approx 500 e-mails and letters) that way they MIGHT catch on.

You could also try writing to actors and actresses etc, etc they catch on pretty quickly.

Write to the government explaining the virtues of Sainfoin covering our green and pleasant land (and giving us a shed-load of quality, medicinal honey) Ask them to make grants available to farmers (they'll jump if the government pays them enough)

Therefore, I have started planting wild flowers wherever I can, to improve the land where the bees live.

Buy the seeds by the Kg they're cheaper. Cotswoldseeds does most anything you want.

Use Mossingen in Germany as an example of how local authorities should/could behave to make the environment more viable and enjoyable for us and wildlife. A man out there campaigned for donkey's ears - can't recall his name but the LA there sell seeds too now.

Here's a pic

To show what verge and roundabouts should look like, instead of the burst of daffodils for a month followed by dead grass and continual cutting in the UK. Believe Stoke-on-Trent are moving that way.