Wild/Feral Survivor-Thrivers: Naturally Selected Resistant Bees.

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This is for discussion of bees that have acquired the ability to cope with varroa without any help. The core assumption is that in the UK and Ireland this has occurred through natural selection for the fittest strain, and any subsequent selection has built on that. The idea is to learn from each-other, what works, and why, in the realm of no-treatment beekeeping. Testimonies, questions, explanations and links to relevant scientific studies are all welcome.

I'd like the thread to be a place where the mechanisms that wild populations employ to locate and maintain resistance can be explored, in the belief that that topic holds the key to understanding why no-treatment beekeeping works in some circumstances and not in others.

 

[user 20297]

Beebe, I think I would want to add to that something that I've raised repeatedly, but have found little interest. That is: how can we evaluate our chances of success?

The reason is: there are what we might break in to classes: high probability, medium probablity, all but impossible.

And the, should we find we belong in the first two (and we want to try) the Westerham Beekeeper's methods are perhaps one of several - perhaps many - approaches we might take. (And we can probably mix them up a little too.)

I would love to hear Steve's accounts of his methods and progress here. Any chance Steve?

He gave a good, concise online talk to our beekeeping association, I think it was earlier this year. I bet there are recordings of his talks online; I'll check.
I do remember that one of his major techniques is caging the queen to create brood-breaks, which is something that I understand the principles of and accept that it works, but that I find unpalatable as it seems too much interference and not natural.

https://www.beelistener.co.uk/beekeeping/developing-varroa-resistant-bees-steve-rileys-guest-blog/

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

He gave a good, concise online talk to our beekeeping association, I think it was earlier this year. I bet there are recordings of his talks online; I'll check.
I do remember that one of his major techniques is caging the queen to create brood-breaks, which is something that I understand the principles of and accept that it works, but that I find unpalatable as it seems too much interference and not natural.

https://www.beelistener.co.uk/beekeeping/developing-varroa-resistant-bees-steve-rileys-guest-blog/

The queen frame trapping for varroa was learned from Dr Ralph Buchler. It is incredibly efficient at removing mites from the colony when carried out in July - August so that you have a low level of mites on your the winter bees. No chemicals treatment required and flexibility on when to take off honey. We show how to make them on our website for a tenner.

The key benefit for us beekeepers was that it overcame the fear of stopping treating. We then moved on to observing how our colonies were interacting with varroa. That's where it gets more interesting and challenging.

As BeeBee intimates, this is still a varroa reduction by the beekeeper. You take away the problem for the bees. But is was a good transitioning technique, which the lead breeding group have moved on from. Our only focus now is finding honeybees that manage their own varroa loads. We have a bunch of presentations to make over the winter so will leave it there (and I'm currently on hols and getting some grief!)

 

[Blunt Spike]

But its worth noting that Darwin spoke at great length to pigeon breeders during the formation of his views

He was advised not to publish the origin of species as no one would care, and to write a book on pigeons due to the fact that that everyone likes pigeons.

 

[Beesnaturally]

He was advised not to publish the origin of species as no one would care, and to write a book on pigeons due to the fact that that everyone likes pigeons.

I don't know if that is true, but he was very aware that his theory undermined the biblical accounts supplied by genesis. The reactions on publication were 'mixed' as we can imagine.

 

[Blunt Spike]

I don't know if that is true, but he was very aware that his theory undermined the biblical accounts supplied by genesis. The reactions on publication were 'mixed' as we can imagine.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...8QFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1LPHf1HpAbjcvurA7XFPiN

 

[user 20297]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...8QFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1LPHf1HpAbjcvurA7XFPiN

In many matters, the divergence from conventional wisdom and practise continues to be resisted and to have its evidence showered with doubts.

 

[user 20297]

I've found an old ash tree on my land which has a large, rotten section. The tree is probably not destined for a long life, but I'm considering using the space created by removal of the rotten wood as a "natural" bait hive to attract any lost swarms next year (always the optimist. )
You Tube knows my mind and showed me this video which @Beesnaturally has probably already seen. Whether you agree with its principles or not (it's in France, so well away from most of your bees), it's quite an interesting video.
I won't be spoiling a good tree and the void won't be very big...about 15 litres so far.



The tree hole.


The free bucket of rotten ash smoker fuel.

 

[polymath]

Read Tom Sealey's book on base hives they like the hole at the bottom and quite small so you would need to seal up most of it.

 

[Beesnaturally]

It does look a little large about the entrance, though I used to collect one or two swarms a year from a colony in an apple tree with a similar size hole. You could see the comb right there. They were obviously on the ball when it came to wasps and robbing, though I never noticed any particular defensiveness about them. The split was between knee and hip level, so the obviously weren't fussed about height. It was also about half a mile from the North Sea, which doesn't often make for an early spring.
I've also seen comb built in the open, on the underside of a large roof overshoot, but they didn't make it through their first winter. I think every cut out I ever did was the more normal small entrance, though sometimes, ie tiles, multiple small entrances. Good luck Beebe!

 

[user 20297]

Read Tom Sealey's book on base hives they like the hole at the bottom and quite small so you would need to seal up most of it.

Thankyou. It's work in progress. Some large trees are being cut down in an adjoining plantation and that possible loss of habitat for wild bees is partly what prompted this idea. Once I've removed every bit of rot I'm going to chainsaw a 25mm panel of good wood from one of the felled trees and shape it to cover the void. Any gaps will be filled with a mud/lime mix leaving a batural looking slit at the bottom.

 

[user 20297]

It does look a little large about the entrance, though I used to collect one or two swarms a year from a colony in an apple tree with a similar size hole. You could see the comb right there. They were obviously on the ball when it came to wasps and robbing, though I never noticed any particular defensiveness about them. The split was between knee and hip level, so the obviously weren't fussed about height. It was also about half a mile from the North Sea, which doesn't often make for an early spring.
I've also seen comb built in the open, on the underside of a large roof overshoot, but they didn't make it through their first winter. I think every cut out I ever did was the more normal small entrance, though sometimes, ie tiles, multiple small entrances. Good luck Beebe!

See above for my longer term plan. What I've recently discovered is that decades ago, this area of wild garden was an apiary. The now deceased brother of my 96 year old neighbour supplied honey to the fanciest grocers in town at that time. On the other side of me, across a field on a south facing slope, a small meadow was the local association apiary.......there hasn't been such a thing for years. There are what seem to be abandoned hives in the grounds of a nearby mansion house. So I'm beginning to realise that I live centrally in a potentially very rich area for bees and I would like to exploit that and encourage a wild population and move some of my hives elsewhere.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Can anyone point me toward ongoing research programs that offer dna testing? I'm curious to know what might show up in some of my bees.

Thanks, BN

 

[JohnRB]

I've found an old ash tree on my land which has a large, rotten section. The tree is probably not destined for a long life, but I'm considering using the space created by removal of the rotten wood as a "natural" bait hive to attract any lost swarms next year (always the optimist. )
You Tube knows my mind and showed me this video which @Beesnaturally has probably already seen. Whether you agree with its principles or not (it's in France, so well away from most of your bees), it's quite an interesting video.
I won't be spoiling a good tree and the void won't be very big...about 15 litres so far.



The tree hole.
View attachment 34367

The free bucket of rotten ash smoker fuel.
View attachment 34368

Ref the size - Just before Christmas I got called to try and rescue a colony from a tree that had been felled - the chainsaw had gone through the colony about a quarter of the way from the top (they had no idea there were any bees there). I cut the 4 combs out and the bees are now in a Nuc in my apiary. Afterwards I calculated the cavity to be between 15 and 20 litres, which is much smaller that I expected, but the bees seemed really healthy so they obviously had no problem with it.

Because the temperature was -2C and they had been exposed for nearly 24 hours, I didn't spend too much time looking at them, but they seem to be very dark bees. My only fear is that I didn't get the Queen - there were various folds and crevices in the cavity where she could have hidden - a bee vac would have been very useful. Time will tell.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Afterwards I calculated the cavity to be between 15 and 20 litres, which is much smaller that I expected,

I guess the bees just have to make do with what they find. One advantage I suppose is that they will swarm often, reducing the varroa load. That may not leave a viable over wintering colony behind but at least the genes have been disseminated abroad

 

[fian]

https://www.earth.com/news/vegetation-helps-wild-honeybees-survive-the-winter/
Interesting article based on a scientific study from this year. Wild living Apis Mellifera Iberiensis colonies were found to be living and according to some reporting of the study ‘thriving’ in hollowed out electrical poles.

Similar results to Irish study in many ways. They draw particular attention to:

“Both the initial occurrence and the subsequent winter survival of the colonies were positively correlated with increasing proportions of wood- and shrubland in the surroundings in both study years. These observations highlight the importance of semi-natural habitats for the conservation of wild-living honeybees.”

It seems to me that if honeybees native to a particular area are given suitable colony sites, greater biodiversity in the ecosystem around them which in turn will offer higher quality forage then they are quite able to live with varroa and indeed thrive.

Of course, but one question, did these scientists measure the chemical load (pesticides) in the areas where the swarms were found?

 

[Apiarist]

Of course, but one question, did these scientists measure the chemical load (pesticides) in the areas where the swarms were found?

Excellent critical thinking, of course it could be the reduced chemical load in the area and not the increased wood and scrubland in the area that is causing the improved over-wintering. Your theory sounds more likely.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Excellent critical thinking, of course it could be the reduced chemical load in the area and not the increased wood and scrubland in the area that is causing the improved over-wintering. Your theory sounds more likely.

Most of my bees are parked in orchards. I've noticed that those in close proximity to the rows, particularly downwind, don't do as well as those with a little more distance. But we are only talking 30 feet or so. I think those that are actually repeatedly hit by spray suffer, but otherwise are fine. I've hives close to the edge of arable land rotating wheat, beans and peas, and they do well. My best are between two large orchards, with maybe 50 feet clearance each side.

So, interesting, but nothing like as lethal to wild/untreated bees as lacking resistance to varroa.

 

[fian]

Most of my bees are parked in orchards. I've noticed that those in close proximity to the rows, particularly downwind, don't do as well as those with a little more distance. But we are only talking 30 feet or so. I think those that are actually repeatedly hit by spray suffer, but otherwise are fine. I've hives close to the edge of arable land rotating wheat, beans and peas, and they do well. My best are between two large orchards, with maybe 50 feet clearance each side.

So, interesting, but nothing like as lethal to wild/untreated bees as lacking resistance to varroa.

But at the risk of being wrong, I doubt that you apply pesticides in your orchard to strengthen your crops against pests, which is what happens here in monoculture areas with or without rotation.

 

[Beesnaturally]

But at the risk of being wrong, I doubt that you apply pesticides in your orchard to strengthen your crops against pests, which is what happens here in monoculture areas with or without rotation.

They are large modern commercial orchards, and not mine.
I will add to my thoughts above: I've yet to make stands thrive longterm in or very close to plum orchards, and that's despite being on the right side of the prevailing wind.

 

[Beesnaturally]

I've been reading the BBKA News special issue: Natural Varroa-resistant Honey Bees: Biology, Testing and Propagation. These are my main thoughts:

The focus is on 'NVR's - Naturally Varroa Resistant bees. Most of the issue comprises explanations of bee/mite biology, prior to explanations of 'hygienic behaviour'. It is identified as the primary mechanism for resistance to AFB, chalkbrood, waxmoth and now varroa. This focuses - indeed is narrowed to - what is generally called 'VHS', and in particular the business of uncapping and re-capping.

Confusingly, in my view, the article speaks of bees 'learning' behaviour. This is, a far as I know, inaccurate; bees are either genetically equipped or not. If there is an epigenetic mechanism I haven't heard of it (and the article notes that).

The article gives a good outline of uncapping, though I would have liked more photos - its my understanding that recapped cells can be identified by close examination in good light, but no guidance to this is offered..

A brief account of known varroa resistant populations is given, with special attention to the UK. The 'mechanism behind naturally varroa resistant population' is detailed - but the focus is entirely on the in-hive machinery. Natural selection for the fittest strains simply isn't mentioned. This is rather like saying the reason a bicycle moves is that the pedals are connected to the back wheel by a chain; and omitting completely the information that someone has to get on the bike and push on the pedals!.

There is a practical guide to measuring recapping rates. Finally at the very end is a bullet-list that deals with what you might do if you find you have NVRs and wish to keep them. I reproduce it below:

* Use queens from proven NVR populations
* Better to use splits or swarms from from local NVR populations
* Collect wild swarms and test recapping rates
* There is a 'halo' effect with beekeepers benefitting from nearby NVR populations
* Test and promote your colonies with high recapping rates
* Try not to move NVR colonies outside of an NVR area
* Continue to treat colonies with very high mite levels, especially if recapping rates are low
* Change slowly and methodically
* Form and work as small local groups of like-minded beekeepers
* Run workshops to share knowledge and equipement
* Enjoy and remember to share your results with the wider community of beekeepers and scientists.

Being critical (of a very worthwhile effort I hasten to add): this concluding list seems bolted on, and ill-thought through. I would have emphasised the requeening of poorly performing stock, rather than its maintenance, and introduced the the machinery of natural selection that has given rise to NVRs in the first place - and maintains them. And I would have spoken of sharing, or selling, queens and splits. On the whole I would have liked to have found a how-to guide. As it stands, the article mentions the how-toos only in this one bullet list.

The Guide costs £4 from the BBKA website