Why is a 14x12 12 ½" deep?

[clv101]

As I was moving some boxes around yesterday when it struck me as odd that a 14x12 box is 12 ½" deep. Wouldn't it have made more sense for it to be 11 3/4" deep. That's only 3/4" shallower, but would allow two supers (5 7/8" deep) to double up as an emergency brood box.

 

[Swarm]

Why make things easy?

 

[For want of a better word]

As I was moving some boxes around yesterday when it struck me as odd that a 14x12 box is 12 ½" deep. Wouldn't it have made more sense for it to be 11 3/4" deep. That's only 3/4" shallower, but would allow two supers (5 7/8" deep) to double up as an emergency brood box.

No idea... but surely the worst beekeepering invention yet!....
reinventing the wheel and painting it another colour?

 

[alanf]

As I was moving some boxes around yesterday when it struck me as odd that a 14x12 box is 12 ½" deep. Wouldn't it have made more sense for it to be 11 3/4" deep. That's only 3/4" shallower, but would allow two supers (5 7/8" deep) to double up as an emergency brood box.

An enterprising manufacturer could market the new boxes, 11 3/8" frames to fit the new 11 3/4" box, together with fillets to fill the lower rebates, brackets to fix two supers together and 10 7/8" deep foundation. How about the "S2" as a name?

Or since the existing frame is 12 inches we could define a new super frame as 14x6 inches and a 6 1/2" box to hold it. Call it the "S.5".

Mathematically, a series based on an aspect ratio of the square root of 2 would be good. Two frames side by side equal the next size up, just like A4 to A3 paper. The ratio means the actual frame sizes are non-recurring numbers but that just makes them interesting. Use the B series because B4 sounds good for a frame 250 × ~353 mm or ~9.84 × ~13.90 inches. Supers could be half width B5 176 × 250 mm or half height too as B6 125 × 176 mm.

For natural beekeepers there's no need to constrain them to man made sizes of inches or mm, hives can be measured in bee lengths. Nose to tail, a box would be 20 bee lengths by 15, or they could be a ratio of the circumference of a waggle dance.

What the world has been crying out for, we just don't have enough formats.

 

[victor meldrew]

As I was moving some boxes around yesterday when it struck me as odd that a 14x12 box is 12 ½" deep. Wouldn't it have made more sense for it to be 11 3/4" deep. That's only 3/4" shallower, but would allow two supers (5 7/8" deep) to double up as an emergency brood box.

The frames are 14x12 and require a bee space (usually bottom) .
1/2" is on the big side I admit
VM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

You forgot to allow for inflation, clv101.


Dusty

 

[clv101]

The frames are 14x12 and require a bee space (usually bottom) .
1/2" is on the big side I admit

Indeed, clearly the frames and boxes are related.

My query is that once upon a time some ingenious/troublesome beek thought to themselves that the regular National brood box was too small, and built a larger one, the 14x12 - with frames to fit. This seems like a rather arbitrary size, and I reckon 2 x super depth would give a box with almost the same volume but the added advantage of being a integer multiple of boxes we already had.

It's a small thing...

 

[REDWOOD]

Brother Adam thought that the standard British hive was too small for his bees so he used a Modified Dadant to his own design which had a bigger capacity for his prolific bees, I don't know how long the 14x12 hive has been around but has a similar capacity to the commercial hive probably both were invented to match Brother Adam's hive, I use the 14x12 and had good results from them, the only disadvantage i find is the frames are very heavy when full of honey, nucs of bees are usually on standard frames. Advantages; less tendency to swarm, not so much winter feeding required and if you get a queen on double brood well have lots of supers handy. If you have ever had a buckfast queen you will know what brother Adam was thinking of when he designed his hive.
Quite fascinating that he used screws to space his frames

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Quite fascinating that he used screws to space his frames

Well, Dartmoor prison wasn't that far away so at least they were of some use to society for a while

 

[oliver90owner]

OP, this comes down to whether the box is sized for the frames or the frames sized for the box. Frame size takes precedence. As simple as that. So end of thread, really.

RAB

 

[clv101]

OP, this comes down to whether the box is sized for the frames or the frames sized for the box. Frame size takes precedence.

Indeed - my question is equally, why are the 14x12 frames the size the are? It just seems a shame that they are nearly twice the size of a super and not exactly the twice.

 

[yeogi75]

so which came first the frame or the box

 

[REDWOOD]

Indeed - my question is equally, why are the 14x12 frames the size the are? It just seems a shame that they are nearly twice the size of a super and not exactly the twice.

They needed to design a hive with 70,000 cells that was considered an ideal size for prolific queens and 460mm square to fit national bits and bobs it just so happened that it ended up 12 1/2 inches on eleven 12 inch frames. I suppose
they could have made it a bit longer for 75,000 cells
However 12 1/2 inches is an easy number to remember you would think but when making my first 14x12 hive I cut the side walls 12 inches (probably thinking of the frame size) took me ages cutting, gluing and nailing strips of wood to the bottom
A man who makes no mistakes makes nothing, unless your a doctor

 

[oliver90owner]

*just seems a shame that they are nearly twice the size of a super and not exactly the twice.

Read my post again. Concentrate on the word 'precedence'.

 

[Hombre]

The word arbitrary comes to mind when deciding upon a frame size. I don't suppose that the original creator actually consulted many people for an opinion before embarking upon his project to revolutionise UK beekeeping . . . if indeed that was his intention.

Doubtless Finman will have read a white paper about it written by some learned soul.