Split or demaree

[Xander]

Good afternoon, I received an overwintered 6 frame nuc at the end of April and hived them straight away.
On Inspection yesterday they have 8 frames of brood and the 2 outer frames filling with stores.
I'm afraid they're running out of space.
I put a super on a couple of weeks ago in the hopes they'll move some of the stores up and make room for brood but I'm not sure what to do next. The super is being drawn but isn't ready yet and it's getting very congested in the brood box.
It's too late to demaree I think so could I
[1] remove a frame of capped brood, a frame of young brood + eggs and a frame of stores with a shake of bees to a nuc and put them in my out apiary to get on and make a new queen while the main colony draws some foundation hopefully before she runs out of laying space?
Or
[2] remove the qx and allow them to use the super (langstroth brood size) as the extra space they need and just put a shallow super over the top? Or
[3] something else?
I don't really want to remove the queen from the main hive as I'm hoping they might give me a little honey before the end of the season or is that just wishful thinking.
I don't know when the season ends here in South Shropshire but last year they were bringing in pollen until October I think it was from the masses of ivy around the village.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would take the QX out but bees won’t draw super frames unless they need to. Remember the frantic expansion of the colony is now over and the queen will start slowing down

 

[Ian123]

By the sounds of it you have no spare kit/frames?….I’d simply give the queen access to the super, then probably the end of this month ensuring queen is in the brood box put the excluder back. When the brood emerges extract every thing in the super and winter in the single brood.

 

[hemo]

1. It's not too late to Demaree and still ideal whilst QC's are not being drawn , one can always re-arrange in 4 - 6 weeks down to one box or
2. Simply go to double brood.

Though with a Lang one would have thought this time of year she should manage ok .

Once I get in to August then in the main most of my honey will nearly be removed , after that they are collecting for themselves.

Problem with allowing her to use shallow frames is then one has storage and waxmoth issues (if not careful).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would take the QX out

no need - the bees are already up there and drawing comb

It's too late to demaree

why?

As far as I can make out they're just not ready to move the stores yet. Are the stores in the brood box capped? if so. bruise them all and they'll soon shift it.

 

[Xander]

That all sounds like good advice, I think I'll take something from everyone.
The stores are capped so ill bruise the cappings, take out the qx (I think it's acting as a bit of a barrier it's a pressed steel one with many sharp edges) then once I see signs of them moving stores up I'll get a wire Qx as I recon in my limited experience that the bees seem to move more freely through it as they appeared to on my demareed colony ( no doubt there are threads on that subject)
Then by end of August take it all down to single BB and let them be.
Thank you all for your input

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think it's acting as a bit of a barrier it's a pressed steel one with many sharp edges

you just said that the bees were already drawing comb in the super so no, it's not acting as a barrier the 'sharp edges' on pressed steel QXs is just a myth passed down by the hand wringers, what we see as a sharp edge, to a bee it's probably the equivalent of the thickness of a concrete floor between levels in a multi storey carpark. I have pressed steel QXs on all my Demaree boards, I've used them on hives in the past and it's never caused an issue.

 

[Xander]

Thanks jbm I'll leave it be and do the bruising thing. It'll save me some faffing around and I'm all for that as time is a precious commodity at the moment.

 

[hemo]

Do you have other colonies on Lang's ?
Or is it just this one ?

 

[Xander]

Do you have other colonies on Lang's ?
Or is it just this one ?

I have 3 prime swarms from this year and another colony set up as a Demaree waiting for a virgin queen to get mated up top.

 

[ericbeaumont]

frame of capped brood, a frame of young brood + eggs and a frame of stores with a shake of bees to a nuc and put them in my out apiary to get on and make a new queen

Bad idea leading to a scrub queen.

 

[hemo]

If worried about lack of brood space do you have room /space in the other colonies to donate a frame or two of brood to ?
Shake off the bees and simply donate the frame of brood if they are from a healthy colony.

 

[Xander]

Thanks Hemo that's something I never thought of or even knew was possible. I'll take a look when I inspect the swarm colonies today.

 

[hemo]

Moving frames between colonies by some is frowned upon but if you know the donor colony is free from major disease then there is no reason why one can't do so, obviously there are caveats like CBPV to be aware of but otherwise if no brood disease then there is no big issue amongst your own colonies. It's a different ball game it if was from someone elses.

 

[Do224]

Bad idea leading to a scrub queen.

What’s a scrub queen? I thought the method described was pretty standard for making a split…but I’m pretty inexperienced so I’m obviously missing something?

 

[Erichalfbee]

To my mind a scrub queen is one made on emergency cells by workers too old to give her adequate nutrition. That's why a test frame often yields them if you decide to go that way rather than introducing a mated queen. Size is no indication.