Where's the honey, Honey?

[LimeStone]

thanks all in advance on any advice. Much appreciated
This is my first year:-
My first nuc came on well when transfered to a national brood box. Queen laid well and I added a Super to give more room. Comb rapidly drawn, soon BAS and busting with good natured bees.
So begining of June added a plastic excluder and a super above hoping the colony would draw it out and fill it with yummy honey

Seems they have replaced the outer frames downstairs with honey but not drawn the comb upstairs at all
Quite a few up there mucking about, but comb not been drawn in two weeks?

As said, hive busting with bees all looking very healthy

Where's the honey, Honey?

 

[Tremyfro]

I am sure lots of helpful advice will be coming along but as I see it.....the bees will fill their home first with stores for the winter...when they run out of space...they will build comb anywhere else....ie in the super.....however, they need a real flow to do that...if there is no big flow.....they don't draw the comb. You could try moving the outside honey frames from downstairs into the middle of the super....that might encourage them if you get a flow in the area soon. It is slow this year. Since the spring...my bees have only very slowly been storing honey....roll on the blackberries and HB.

 

[B+.]

Where's the honey, Honey?

When theres a nectar flow going on, all of their attention can be focussed on collecting as much as they can. They store it wherever they can. If there is no drawn comb above the brood area, they will fill the cells the queen wants to lay in and she can become honeybound.
I suggest you remove the queen excluder and allow the younger bees that draw wax access to the foundation above. They can be reluctant to enter a super full of foundation especially if they have to squeeze through an excluder.
If the super is the same size as your brood combs, move some of the outer combs up into the upper box to encourage them up and replace the combs in the bottom box with foundation. They'll draw them out.
Good luck

 

[JohnyP]

I agree, remove the excluder, for at least a week. After that, make sure you check the queen is downstairs before putting the QE back.

Also, if brood in the super bothers you, have a quick look in the super frames for eggs/larvae which might have been laid in the last week. If you find them, then remove the frames and stick them in the freezer overnight before returning to the hive. The bees will clean things up after.

 

[LimeStone]

great advice thank you all
yes I was concerned about removing the QE and having brood upstairs with the honey, but like the idea of freezing and adding a QE once that comb is drawn and ready

..so no case for moving the whole box of undrawn comb down 1 stage and having it in the middle of the colony is there?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You don't seem to give any indication of how much brood is in the deep, or when you piled on extra space for them below the QX (did you need to go brood and a half at that point?) is there any brood in the shallow box?
When did you get the nuc?
Without any specific information, my feeling is that,starting out....whenever... with a nuc, expecting them to expand into a full size strong colony on a brood and a half and drawing out comb in a super is a bit ambitious.
I've never had issues with bees going through an excluder to draw comb in the super - my feeling is they don't need to as they haven't finished in the space below.

 

[pargyle]

You don't seem to give any indication of how much brood is in the deep, or when you piled on extra space for them below the QX (did you need to go brood and a half at that point?) is there any brood in the shallow box?
When did you get the nuc?
Without any specific information, my feeling is that,starting out....whenever... with a nuc, expecting them to expand into a full size strong colony on a brood and a half and drawing out comb in a super is a bit ambitious.
I've never had issues with bees going through an excluder to draw comb in the super - my feeling is they don't need to as they haven't finished in the space below.

Spot on ... beat me to it. Too much space too soon and too high an expectation - even with superbees you would be lucky to get a small crop from this season's nuc - more so if they have to draw all new comb.

 

[LimeStone]

- my feeling is they don't need to as they haven't finished in the space below.

Yes, I'm sure you are probably right..the usual impatience being shown here! (sorry)

I bought a nuc from maisemore back in May and they very quickly expanded, so I added a shallow box to the main deep box. The queen seems prolific and soon that was BAS throughout both boxes
No sign of play cups or queen cups so on advice from locals I added the QE and the Super ready for the flow...

..I just assumed they would draw the comb even if they didn't or weren't able to fill it

 

[dn170221]

Are you on brood and a half?
If so move some of the drawn frames from up to the middle of the top super.

 

[LimeStone]

Ok, well done and thank you
So final thought - Do I abandon the Super above?

(must have more patience, must have more patience, must have more patience, must have more patience....)

 

[Tom Jay]

Here's a more general point about getting a newly established colony of bees up through their QX: I've taken one super frame drawn and filling with honey not yet capped from my strongest colony and set it in the middle of the eleven brand new frames for a new colony's first super, and they get the hint and get up there to carry on the job.

This is just my second season and I don't recall where I got this idea from. Is it bad practice? Is it general? Does it work for others?

Tom

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ok, well done and thank you
So final thought - Do I abandon the Super above?

I wouldn't at this stage - as you have caught on - be patient, they will move up there when they need the space (forget this nonsense about bees not going through the QX )

 

[dexter's shed]

is it just me, does it mean I'm "OLD SKOOL" but I never expect to get a honey harvest in the first year

 

[dn170221]

is it just me, does it mean I'm "OLD SKOOL" but I never expect to get a honey harvest in the first year

That is what I was lead to believe in my first year. Very poor advice, I wasn't expecting to have to put supers on and only did so when it was too late. At least I learnt how to perform an artificial swarm in my first year!!!

 

[bontbee]

That is what I was lead to believe in my first year. Very poor advice, I wasn't expecting to have to put supers on and only did so when it was too late. At least I learnt how to perform an artificial swarm in my first year!!!

Ditto. One of my mentees had an early nuc last year, Not only did it provide a second colony, but also over 70lb honey. Both survived the winter and are doing very well.

Yes, I know last year was a good 'un, but round here this year is shaping up to be pretty good, after all. Now, where's that bit of wood....

I often do both if they are reluctant to shift into a box of foundation. Ie move open stores up and foundation down into the half brood - next to the brood nest, or even in the middle - and leave the QX off, too. One or the other should be sufficient, though. Personally, I'm not too worried if a super comb had had just one cycle of brood in it.

PS Are you aware that, a few years back, (how many? my memory fades...), some were QXs being sold with slots that were too small to let the bees through? That was resolved so, if you bought it recently, it should be good. If it was second hand, it might be worth checking.

 

[Tom Jay]

is it just me, does it mean I'm "OLD SKOOL" but I never expect to get a honey harvest in the first year

That's what I was told too last spring with the gift of one nuc. Ended my first season with 20 pounds of the lovely stuff and four colonies, two of them with good winter supply of their own too.

 

[dexter's shed]

That is what I was lead to believe in my first year. Very poor advice, I wasn't expecting to have to put supers on and only did so when it was too late. At least I learnt how to perform an artificial swarm in my first year!!!

I didn't mean not adding supers, I meant not taking any honey for myself,
I leave one full super for the hive over winter, I don't feed bees

 

[Tom Jay]

I didn't mean not adding supers, I meant not taking any honey for myself,
I leave one full super for the hive over winter, I don't feed bees

That's inspiring, Dexter, for a newbie like me. I need to consider that for this winter. Do you ever give a colony a super from another colony for overwintering?

 

[dexter's shed]

That's inspiring, Dexter, for a newbie like me. I need to consider that for this winter. Do you ever give a colony a super from another colony for overwintering?

simple answer, YES, a lot will say you run the risk of transferring disease, but it's life, lots of times I purposely add supers to strong colonies solely to give them to other hives, no different to adding brood etc to boost numbers

 

[Tom Jay]

simple answer, YES, a lot will say you run the risk of transferring disease, but it's life, lots of times I purposely add supers to strong colonies solely to give them to other hives, no different to adding brood etc to boost numbers

And do you remove the queen excluder for the winter so as to let them 'live' on the honey? Or are they ok fetching it from upstairs?