When to put 1st super on new colony/hive?

[Eric the Ewok]

Caught a small swarm on 1st July and put into a new hive with new wax. Fed them for the first week or so. Lots of pulled wax some stores and capped brood by 12th - so I should be getting new bees now - have not had chance to check this weekend. Still a couple of un-pulled brood wax each side of the centre frames.

My question is - how long should I leave it before putting the first super on? I presume they will need a super for the winter stores? Now the colony is growing I suspect the outer brood frames will start getting worked now. In this lovely hot weather it seems a perfect time for them to be pulling wax.

When (if?) the super goes on should I feed as well to get them going?

Cheers, Eric.

 

[VEG]

I usually add a super when the bees have around 7 frames of brood.

 

[itma]

For your WBC (just 10 frames in the brood box), you should be thinking of running (inc overwintering) on more than one brood box. Brood and a half is quite usual. Double brood is hardly rare. (14x12 WBC should be OK as a single box.)
The "half" (shallow box) needs hoffman-spaced frames on rails --- NOT crop-type 'super' frames (SN1 ?) on castellations or other spacing method.

Usually, you wouldn't think of adding another box above the brood until at least all frames have been drawn.

However, since you seem to have a brand new hive and new frames (with undrawn foundation), I'm going to suggest that you give them a shallow box as soon as you have it correctly configured (as above).
BUT put the new box under the existing brood box for now.
In the first instance, you are just getting the bees to take the newness off the box, so that it is more acceptable to them. And making them pass through it will achieve that.



Rails are cheap (£2?) and very easily fitted (and castellations easily removed).
BUT, if you don't have Hoffman frames, the simplest/cheapest way of getting some is to but some plastic "hoffman converter clips". Even Thorns charge less than £10 for enough for 50 frames. Sell on the other 40 frames worth! (Or find someone who has a boxful spare ...)
They just drawing pin onto the frame sidebar to give the right spacing for brood frames.


Sadly, you aren't likely to need a crop super this summer.
But more brood/storage space for winter, probably.

 

[Eric the Ewok]

No - I won't get any honey this year obviously - it was just a case of how best to prepare the new colony/hive for the winter.

I can soon sort out a "super" set up for brood spacing I have plenty of spacers (use to keep bees years ago - now getting back into it) Although the wax is new everything else as been in a hive before.

I can see the logic in this too. I'll have a look at them again at the weekend as see how far they have got with the existing frames.

 

[itma]

...
I can soon sort out a "super" set up for brood spacing I have plenty of spacers (use to keep bees years ago - now getting back into it) . ..

Almost all spacers are (topbar) push on types for setting crop super spacing. IIRC (loathe those things myself, particularly the metal ones) none quite hits the right spacing for brood frames.
Hence my particular suggestion of "hoffman converters" which attach to the sidebar.

I wouldn't suggest feeding, but I would shuffle one of those outer foundation frames between the brood nest and the first all-stores frame - in order to get it drawn as quickly as possible. Some others would trust the bees to draw comb as they might need it. Not me any more!

 

[Finman]

Caught a small swarm on 1st July and put into a new hive with new wax. Fed them for the first week or so. Lots of pulled wax some stores and capped brood by 12th - so I should be getting new bees now - .

It takes about 4 weeks that swarm gets lost of new bees. So you see what happens.

Small swarm? how many frameds it covers and how many brood frames you have?
It depends too, how warm you keep the hive
- have you mesh floor
- how wide entrance
- how many unoccupyed frames in the box
- dummy board

 

[Eric the Ewok]

Almost all spacers are (topbar) push on types for setting crop super spacing. IIRC (loathe those things myself, particularly the metal ones)

Yes the metal ones are pants. I have plastic ones (different colours each end so I put the frames back the right way) - for both spacings which work out exactly right in my hive on plastic rails. Works a treat for me.

 

[itma]

... I have plastic ones (different colours each end so I put the frames back the right way) - for both spacings which work out exactly right in my hive on plastic rails. Works a treat for me.

I'll try one very last time.



Plastic topbar spacers set the frames at a different spacing to hoffmans.

Frame spacing in a crop super is largely a matter of beekeeper preference.
Brood frame spacing is a matter of matching the bees preference. And perhaps matching the spacing you have in the rest of the brood nest, so that the bees don't cope with small misalignments in the way they usually do, with prop and wax!

Because brood frames (unlike crop super frames) need to be removed repeatedly for inspection, you need to be able to "snug" them back tightly together, after each inspection, otherwise the spacing drifts and you are back to lots more prop and wax in unhelpful places.
You can't really snug topbar-spaced frames back properly tightly after inspection. And so they get covered in prop, which makes snugging them progressively more difficult.

Hoffman (sidebar) spacing is designed for brood frames.
The right spacing.
The arrow-head cuts through prop when 'snugging'.
Being able to push from below the topbar keeps the frame vertical, and thus at the same spacing all the way down - yet again minimising prop and brace, and allowing the bees maximum use of the frame for brooding.

All the reasons that make hoffman frames the standard choice for deep brood boxes should make hoffmans the standard choice for shallow brood boxes!
And hoffman converters are such a minute investment.


Not saying you cannot use topbar spacing in a brood box.
Just that hoffman spacing is a VERY much better choice.

OK, all done now on that subject!