Whatever happened to those NZ bees?

[mbc]

How can you be sure that a strain of bees is native? Maybe you mean imported AMM and its mongrels. Anyway just because it is native or near-native does not necessarily mean that it is the best bee from a beekeeping point of view.

Nice. Maybe you mean ***** Cypriot mongrels imported from wherever when you sell your queens at top wack but I wouldnt be so rude to suggest such a thing without knowing. I would hazard a guess though that your queens wouldnt compare well to mine under West Wales conditions though.
Wind your neck in foreign queen salesman or suffer some come back !

 

[Poly Hive]

Bit rough.

PH

 

[mbc]

If you play with stinging insects then expect to get stung ! ( especially if your playing with 2nd generation crosses of imports ! )

 

[Hivemaker.]

Bit rough.

PH

I agree,rather abusive.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

 

[mbc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly Hive
Bit rough.

PH

I agree,rather abusive.

Gentlemen, which bit do you find abusive ? If its the use of the word " *****" then I apologise, but I clearly wasnt casting aspersions on the origins of Nortons queens, only suggesting it would be rude to presume without knowing, and there will be no apology for calling a foreign queen salesman ( even if they are also producers of quality foreign queens ) a foreign queen salesman.

 

[Chris B]

mbc,
I suspect if somebody said to you "wind your neck in Welshman" you might find the tone abusive, whether factually correct or not.

 

[mbc]

mbc,
I suspect if somebody said to you "wind your neck in Welshman" you might find the tone abusive, whether factually correct or not.

Yea, you might have a point Chris B, I apologise for the abrasive tone and put it down to an early wake up watching the Samoan's give our national rugby team a torrid time at 4.30am

 

[Haughton Honey]

An-y-way.....

I like Norton's version of Buckfast queens and I like Keld's version of Buckfast queens.

I don't like AMM (if it exists.....and I'm not convinced that anyone can prove that it does) and I'm not in any mind to trial NZ Carnica.

Nuff said.

 

[BKF Admin]

Its nice to see that members have self moderated this thread.

Well done everyone

 

[Norton]

MBC: Life is tough! Buckfast bees, foreign queen salesmen, Samoans, early mornings, low production in your apiary, the realisation that your beloved native bees might not be as native as you once thought, Carnica queens from NZ outperforming local stocks, packages from NZ etc etc all got the better of you and led to an outburst of anger!!!!!!
Seems like you have a big problem.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Just a point that might help bring a little clarity for us non-scientific types: perhaps "indigenous" is a more helpful term than "native" in this debate.
Native, in common usage, simply infers place of birth, whereas indigenous infers originating from or being characteristic of a particular area.

The thing that concerns me most about the import of queens is the sustainability angle. I am very very very far from being an expert on such matters, but I would have thought that the whole system relies on maintaining constant imports of queens so that the "super bee" gene pool is not diluted by mating with native drones.
What happens if the import of queens from NZ suddenly becomes impossible?

I ask this to genuinely try to understand how the whole thing works.

 

[Norton]

Just a point that might help bring a little clarity for us non-scientific types: perhaps "indigenous" is a more helpful term than "native" in this debate.
Native, in common usage, simply infers place of birth, whereas indigenous infers originating from or being characteristic of a particular area.

Most bee populations are hybridised to some degree and cannot be called native. Maybe it is best to describe them as "Present day local populations".

The thing that concerns me most about the import of queens is the sustainability angle. I am very very very far from being an expert on such matters, but I would have thought that the whole system relies on maintaining constant imports of queens so that the "super bee" gene pool is not diluted by mating with native drones.
What happens if the import of queens from NZ suddenly becomes impossible?

If we want to maintain the desirable characteristics of a strain we have to select and control mating in every generation. We only breed from breeder queens that we know the ancestry of and after the daughters have been tested for performance. If a beekeeper cannot select, control the mating and carry out testing then yes he/she has to buy in queens from a reputable breeder and queen producer. If they do not, then within a couple of generations the bees will drift in to whatever the general local population is and this in the UK means unselected mongrels.

Yes, it is possible that at some stage a new development (one thinks Aethina tumida here) will close the door to the NZ imports - but beekeepers being beekeepers means that they nearly always have a "Plan B(ee)" in case something doesn't work out.

 

[mbc]

MBC: Life is tough! Buckfast bees, foreign queen salesmen, Samoans, early mornings, low production in your apiary, the realisation that your beloved native bees might not be as native as you once thought, Carnica queens from NZ outperforming local stocks, packages from NZ etc etc all got the better of you and led to an outburst of anger!!!!!!
Seems like you have a big problem.

"anger" ?!
I think you miss read me Norton, I merely asked you to wind your neck in. I have previously apologised if this phraseology caused offence - it wasnt meant to, however the message was sincere, that is, that you have absolutely no incling as to the origins or ancestry of my bees and for you to allude to that is cheeky ( is that acceptably moderate for any self appointed moderaters ? ) . You claim to know the ancestry of your breeder queens and yet cannot accept I might know mine, of course the truth is I dont, I merely have an informed( ish ) guess.
If you think I'm deluded then you might be right but from my point of view its you who seem to have a problem, do you think theres a chance you might lose a large portion of your market or something ?
I'm very happy with my bees and I'm also happy for you to be happy with your bees, looking back through the thread theres no doubting who started any problem
Take it easy foreign queen salesman, I'm sure I will

 

[eric]

7.652 Roger

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Most bee populations are hybridised to some degree and cannot be called native. Maybe it is best to describe them as "Present day local populations".

I understand what you mean, but the reason I made the original point was because I think the term "native" causes confusion.

Native: being the place or environment in which a person was born or a thing came into being: one's native land.

With that definition in mind I can quite confidently say all my bees are native.
But indigenous? - no

 

[Norton]

So, using the above definition we can say that Buckfast bees are native. They were developed in the UK.

I was born in what is now Zimbabwe but am from English parents. Am I a native Zimbabwean? A Brit, or a remnant of the British Empire?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

So, using the above definition we can say that Buckfast bees are native. They were developed in the UK.

I was born in what is now Zimbabwe but am from English parents. Am I a native Zimbabwean? A Brit, or a remnant of the British Empire?

My family orginates from Ireland and Norway but I wouldn't call myself native Irish or Norwegian, what with being born in Wales.
Confusing isn't it?

 

[eric]

So, using the above definition we can say that Buckfast bees are native. They were developed in the UK.

I was born in what is now Zimbabwe but am from English parents. Am I a native Zimbabwean? A Brit, or a remnant of the British Empire?

Rhodesia Roger plzz

 

[Norton]

Confusing yes. My wife,after revealing that she is married to a man from Zimbabwe has been asked what colour the kids are!