What to do next?

[HelenX]

I have a swarm making a very disorganised (to me, not them) nest, and I am trying to decide how soon I should do anything.

They were in a friend's compost bin, with three combs hanging from the lid, about 4 inches maximum depth. We cut them off and put them in a brood box with a solid floor, trying to prop them up between frames of foundation. We ended up with them in a couple of piles on the floor. While doing this we saw sealed brood, but did not fiddle about trying to see any other stages. We then left the hive on top of their original home. This was on 7th June.

The bees seem happy and busy, and we have been feeding them, as our others have needed feeding.

The nest has expanded, but in a very wild way between the frames. They are using some of the foundation, but it is impossible to even try to inspect them, or to put them onto an OMF. The pictures were taken on Saturday, so no doubt they have expanded since then.

I feel sure that the next step is to add another brood box above, and hope the bees will move up into it so that at some point I can add a queen excluder.

My question is how soon to do this. I could:
1) do it now - but would they bother with it, and would it be just making the area of the hive too big for them?
2) do it later in the summer - but would they be all together in the new box in time for winter?
3) leave them as they are until next spring - but that would mean leaving them on the solid floor.

Any opinions, please?

 

[VEG]

Apart from cutting up the comb you could place another brood box on top complete with frames and foundation and hope they move up into it. Then find queen swap the brood boxes around put queen in bottom then a queen excluder. Wait for the brood to hatch out of top box then you can remove it. Just like a bailey frame change. Do it sooner rather than later.

 

[MuswellMetro]

either as VEg or you need to cut out all the brace comb and fix it in frames with wire or elastic bands, the bees will fix it on to the frames

i would with the two bit shown hanging from the lid cut it off and put both bits in one frame ,cut off any surplus overhanging the frame or each bit of brace comb

if you want ot operate it as a standard hive you will have to be quite ruthless and cut out all the brace comb, then close up the frames to correct

spacings

any hive will make brace comb if you leave space like in your hive,

feed any suplus bracecimb with honey back to them above the crown board with a reduce size feed hole to stop them biulding in the roof

 

[BeeNice]

I think you need to start from the beginning, take some frames no foundation. Tye in all the wild comb into the frames, rubber bands should do the job or drawing pins, even the wild comb hanging from the crown board these could go onto one open frame, once done close up all the frame so you only have a bee space between them so they can't build within any open space. Once the bees have built out the full frames and the hive has grown you can work these frames to the outside of the BB. Next year you can do a shook swarm and put them onto nice clean wired foundation.
Good luck
regards
steven

 

[oliver90owner]

Even getting her into a super would be a result. Drawn comb is really required, I would think to get her to move at the present in any decent time scale. By all means use deep frames if you have enough. It would be a problem finding her in that lot and best not disturbed, perhaps!!

It is a mess down there and I would think a total loss of wax. Not really a problem and you already knew that! A box of drawn shallow frames are more likely to be available, and more expendable if you don't want them for honey extraction (doesn't bother me).

You can trap her upstairs eventually if she is laying there, even if not at your first attempt (unless you do happen to find her downstairs and can shift her). Fresh eggs after two or three days is the clue.

If into a super, it might be good for a brood and a half eventually for the winter?

Just go for it now, don't be too worried, although the season is slipping by. Use what you have, improvise. If you failed, you could leave them to it for the winter. So your choice of how to attack the problem. Plenty of ideas from the rest. Have fun, but personally I would not want to be pulling it all apart again.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

You could take a couple of frames of brood from your other colony if they are strong,put into nuc box,then tease that mess apart and shake the bee's into the nuc box with the frames of brood, and some new frames.

 

[HelenX]

Thank you all very much for your suggestions - and thank you Rab for the reassurance that if it goes wrong they will be OK for the winter!

On balance, I don't think I want to mess them about again, and none of my other hives are strong enough to take a frame of brood from them, so I will stick to plan A, and add another box. I was thinking of foundation, but it certainly makes sense to encourage them with drawn comb, and you are right Rab, this will mean using a super. I think I can take about 6 drawn frames from the main two hives - the rest will have to be foundation.

You all seem to agree that 'as soon as possible' is the right time to do this - so it must be right! The plan now is to add the new super on Friday after work, if the weather allows.

Helen

 

[Vergilius]

Helen,

Next time when you get one of these "cut-outs" you should cut the combs into frame-sized chunks and then wire them into foundationless frames.

Then you can fill up the remainder of the box with frames of foundation.


Ben P

 

[Headnavigator]

Just be a little cautious because mine did something akin to this and then sneakily hid a queen cell where it couldn't be seen. I would recommend very careful inspections of the convoluted comb for as long as it's there.

 

[jaynie]

AHA! my dad had this very same problem as a surprise swarm moved in before the hive was fully constructed! a friendly local beek did just this - wired the comb into a frame. these 2 frames are now on the outside of the brood box and there is brace/bridge comb all over the place as these two "wired in" frames kind of collapsed into the other frames.
now, while there's no brood in the cells over winter, is now a good time to whip out the affected frames and trim the brace off and replace the wired in brace comb?
or is it better to wait until spring and "do a bailey" to start afresh?
you just can't find this info in books!! you lot are way better!

 

[victor meldrew]

AHA! my dad had this very same problem as a surprise swarm moved in before the hive was fully constructed! a friendly local beek did just this - wired the comb into a frame. these 2 frames are now on the outside of the brood box and there is brace/bridge comb all over the place as these two "wired in" frames kind of collapsed into the other frames.
now, while there's no brood in the cells over winter, is now a good time to whip out the affected frames and trim the brace off and replace the wired in brace comb?
or is it better to wait until spring and "do a bailey" to start afresh?
you just can't find this info in books!! you lot are way better!

Winter isn't the time for messing about in the brood box
The problem won't worsen if left until Spring time
Bees don't build comb in the Winter time as there is no nectar flow on !
liquid feed isn't an alternative .
A little patience and when appropriate Hive makers advice will see it sorted
VM