What swarm prevention methods this year?

[Finman]

The supersedure only bees was from several observations by Cooper on native bees .

What is native bee? Supercedure has nothing to do with native. It is just bees' habit to ensure colonys future.

To exist every beecolony must swarm and superdece. That is in bees' genes. These are Basic concepts to exist.

 

[For want of a better word]

The supersedure only bees was from several observations by Cooper on native bees (or native crosses, he doesn't define which) and I simply wondered if anyone had experienced this with their natives.

Yes, and other BIPCo members with Cornish variant Amm have noticed this trait and some actively selectively breed for it,... but I could not say that the bees with a tendency to superceed never swarm!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

...but I could not say that the bees with a tendency to superceed never swarm!

Yeghes da

Tendency to supercede.... That is special feature to Russian bee race. It was native in Siberia. It has allways queen cells in the hive.

 

[For want of a better word]

What is native bee? Supercedure has nothing to do native. It is just bees' habit to ensure colonys future.

To exist every beecolony must swarm and superdece. That is in bees' genes.

Just a trait that has been noticed in the Native bee ( Apis melliferea mellifera) of the Western fringes and other places of the UK that have not been swamped with bees that are not endemic to the UK

The non endemic bees seem to have a swarming propensity... in the genes as you so rightly say!
( although I think it can be "selected out" by selective breeding)


Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

( although I think it can be "selected out" by selective breeding)


Yeghes da

I know several beekeeprs who have selected their hives so that honestly they can say that they are non swarmy.

They select a 4 year old mother queen, which have never tried to swarm.
From that they rear queens. But they must have a large genepool, and several mother queéns in the yard that they will not collapse in inbreering hole.

And you need 50 hives or more, that you can keep your own bee stock. Then you must have solitary mating yard.


It is really hard work to do continuous selection and bee breeding and I have found it easier to use AS + clipped wing that I do not loose my hives up to heavens blue.


I have kept long time closed bee stocks, but I have noticed later, that inbreeding has spoiled my splended stock.

When I have bought new queens from professional beekeepers, the comparision has revieled that "my own selected stock" is actually turned carbage.

 

[Finman]

.
Once I got an idea to buy good bee stocks (queens) from different professional queen sellers. To join hybrid vigor to splended features.

Yes, I had queens from 5 different origins. And what happened? The crossings swarmed like swarmy bees can do. They were not any more peacefull.
With crossings their gene errors were healed and they turner more to wild bee than carefully selected breeded bee.

 

[Thymallus]

Just a trait that has been noticed in the Native bee ( Apis melliferea mellifera) of the Western fringes and other places of the UK

I don't think it was pure Amm's that Cooper was on about. Without rereading my memory suggests he (and others) observed it in local bees, which were already crossed. I'm sure you will correct me if I'm mistaken.
But does anyones bees (Amms or otherwise) exhibit this trait today.

 

[masterBK]

I have several colonies that replace their queens by supercedure. You must be careful when breeding from such stocks that you are not breeding for Nosema susceptibility. Need to select those that also produce lots of spring honey (as nosemic stocks tend to dwindle in spring and not do well on the OSR). Nosemic stocks also tend not to swarm as they never get strong enough.

 

[Finman]

I have several colonies that replace their queens by supercedure. You must be careful when breeding from such stocks that you are not breeding for Nosema susceptibility..

That is right... Easy queens, but why they want to change the queen?

Queen is sick, or something else trouple, when beeswant a new queen. Problematic queen is not suitable for breeding.

 

[Bee Bob Delux]

Just like to says, very interesting thread enjoyed catching up
& I'm glad my summer plans align with Finman's preferred approach... I may have got thinks right for once!

 

[Thymallus]

I have several colonies that replace their queens by supercedure.

That's very interesting, you're the first person I've heard that actually has some. What type/strain of bees are they?

 

[BeeJayBee]

I have several colonies that replace their queens by supercedure.

That's very interesting, you're the first person I've heard that actually has some. What type/strain of bees are they?

50% of mine do too, they are local mongrels.

 

[Thymallus]

I could do with importing some them locals uuuup North. Our lasses are annual swarmers and bad tempered to boot.
From several sources of information it seems like the characteristics of the local mongrels varies tremendously depending on where you are.

 

[Finman]

That's very interesting, you're the first person I've heard that actually has some. What type/strain of bees are they?

They must have inherited disease. Continuous superceding is not normal, and it is not a feature , what breeders want.

 

[masterBK]

Finman : No inherited disease. I know a little about bees (NDB, MSc Biology) and have been keeping bees for quite few years to know that some strains will still supersede in the absence of disease and other problems. The bees are my own selected mongrels developed over many years to suit my style of beekeeping (double brood, demaree system) and I produce higher yields of honey per colony than most beekeepers in my part of the world. I breed from 3 yr old queens whose colonies winter well over winter, build up rapidly for the OSR and stay strong for the the heather and show little inclination towards swarming. I never breed from any queen whose colonies have had chalk brood or paralysis or Nosema. Only 3 or 4 colonies out of my 28 manifest the supersedure impulse (and this tends to happen in the 2nd or 3rd year of the queens life)

Morales G 1986 studied “the effects of cavity size on demography of unmanaged colonies of honeybees” & found that supersedure occurred in 50% of colonies in hives with 84 L of space but only 5% of colonies in hives with 21L and with 42L space (these tended to replace their queens by swarming)

 

[beeno]

No problem, as long as you inspect early or late in the day.

I do exactly that, not that I would dream about telling the forum though!

 

[beeno]

how late. im thinking of doing all my inspections on the way home from work this summer so between 4 and 5pm is that ok?

I would go after six as I noticed one come back 1730hrs.

 

[Thymallus]

Morales G 1986 studied “the effects of cavity size on demography of unmanaged colonies of honeybees” & found that supersedure occurred in 50% of colonies in hives with 84 L of space but only 5% of colonies in hives with 21L and with 42L space (these tended to replace their queens by swarming)

Interesting. You don't have a link to the original reference by any chance and if so it is freely available. Pubmed can't seem to find it...... . I'm afraid my days of access to all journals is few years past.

 

[masterBK]

It was a M.Sc thesis (University of Guelph) Ontario. Reported page 197 in Winston " the Biology of the honeybee".

 

[Thymallus]

Got it, many thanks.
Shame the originaL isn't available. I would suspect that the study period is only a year or two years at most, as most MSc courses are only 1-2 years. Although Canada may do things differently. Seems they have most thesis's available to download, but not that far back.