What manipulations are you planning to try as a beginner.

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When you see queen cells and split your double brood colonies, is it just a case of taking the two boxes apart and letting the queenless box raise a new queen? Wouldn’t the queen right colony still swarm?

You have to leave the queenright colony with virtually no brood but with plenty of room for the queen to lay preferably giving them foundation to keep them occupied.

 

[Boston Bees]

When you see queen cells and split your double brood colonies, is it just a case of taking the two boxes apart and letting the queenless box raise a new queen? Wouldn’t the queen right colony still swarm?

Not if you do it the correct way. There are many methods. Personally, I use the following two, depending on if I can find the queen when I see swarm cells, or not (these are both reactive methods, of course, unlike the Demaree which I understand to be a proactive method):

I can't find the queen
Swarm control and elusive queens - The Apiarist

I can find the queen
The nucleus method - The Apiarist

 

[The Poot]

Not if you do it the correct way. There are many methods. Personally, I use the following two, depending on if I can find the queen when I see swarm cells, or not (these are both reactive methods, of course, unlike the Demaree which I understand to be a proactive method):

I can't find the queen
Swarm control and elusive queens - The Apiarist

I can find the queen
The nucleus method - The Apiarist

Same here. Usually the former as my queens are not marked!

 

[Boston Bees]

Same here. Usually the former as my queens are not marked!

Ditto re marking!

 

[pete_allotments]

Hi all,

This discussion has been interesting, and I would also like some advice.

As a "new" beekeeper about to start my 2nd year with colonies, I'm trying to "plan ahead".
I'm looking for comments or advice on my plans from the knowledgable members of this forum.

My plans for this year is colony splits to increase the number of colonies. I currently have 3 active hives, and looking to increase that number. (In the shed are 4 new hives, and 6 new nuc boxes - but no frames with foundation (yet) )

I was planning to split each hive in mid March (assuming the weather is warm, dry and bright), producing a nuc box from each hive, leave the nuc box next to the hive for 7 days, then move to the new location (between 2 and 4 miles away from hive). Once they have been in the new location for 14 days, move into a new hive at the new location.
My split would be based on the methods identified by "Boston Bees"from "the Apiarist" and/or Wally Shaw (WBKA) on making increases.

Are my plans correct, or does the forum think I can improve the actions.

Thanks for any advice from the forum

 

[Boston Bees]

I was planning to split each hive in mid March (assuming the weather is warm, dry and bright),

Way too early. Though you don't say where you are. In Yorkshire I wouldn't even inspect until mid April, let alone split. Splits would be more a May thing. You need a flourishing population of drones to get good mating of your queen, and they won't be there in March.

leave the nuc box next to the hive for 7 days

Why? If it's going to another apiary, move it immediately.

 

[pete_allotments]

Boston Bees, thanks fo the advice, it helps me understand where I might be making mistakes - better to ask than do !

Way too early. Though you don't say where you are. In Yorkshire I wouldn't even inspect until mid April, let alone split. Splits would be more a May thing. You need a flourishing population of drones to get good mating of your queen, and they won't be there in March.

I'm based on Cambridgeshire/Northamptonshire border, and trying to get an understanding of the best time to perform the activities.

Why? If it's going to another apiary, move it immediately.

Thanks for this advice, just what I hoped to gain from the forum
Should I "shake in extra bees", close the entrance, move, and open entrance 24 hours later

 

[Boston Bees]

Should I "shake in extra bees", close the entrance, move, and open entrance 24 hours later

I only have one apiary so don't use this method of swarm control. Mine are based on the two Apiarist links I shared, both of which allow the nuc to stay in the same apiary. So I will leave a response to those who move nucs to a new apiary.

 

[simonwig]

Hivemaker's variation on the nuc method has advantages IMO.

1, After one week go back into the original box and take down all the QCs.

2, Add a frame of eggs.

3, Go back in one week, take down the QCs in the original box and you can run the old queen back in.

My variation, if I want a new queen, is to take a QC from the main hive at step 3 and add it back to the now Q- nucleus.

Simon

 

[Boston Bees]

Hivemaker's variation on the nuc method has advantages IMO.

1, After one week go back into the original box and take down all the QCs.

2, Add a frame of eggs.

3, Go back in one week, take down the QCs in the original box and you can run the old queen back in.

My variation, if I want a new queen, is to take a QC from the main hive at step 3 and add it back to the now Q- nucleus.

Simon

This variation seems to require four steps that the simpler nucleus method doesn't:

a) tearing down queen cells in the main hive not once but twice
b) finding a frame of eggs from somewhere
c) locating the queen in the nucleus and moving her to the original hive without damaging her
d) removing a QC from the main hive and inserting it, without damaging it, into the nucleus

These steps all take time, can go wrong in some way, or weaken another hive (in the case of the frame of eggs). What benefit is gained from these additional steps, to offset this?

 

[simonwig]

This variation seems to require four steps that the simpler nucleus method doesn't:

a) tearing down queen cells in the main hive not once but twice
b) finding a frame of eggs from somewhere
c) locating the queen in the nucleus and moving her to the original hive without damaging her
d) removing a QC from the main hive and inserting it, without damaging it, into the nucleus

What benefit is gained from these additional steps?

The main advantage is the brood break in the main box is cut to two weeks. By the time you return the queen to the original box she should be laying again.
Also waiting / hoping for a successful mating is not impacting on the main hive and potential further delays.
You may already have a frame of eggs in the nuc, if not most colonies should be able to spare one.
I don't think moving the queen and QC is that great a risk.
Simon

 

[Erichalfbee]

The main advantage is the brood break in the main box is cut to two weeks. By the time you return the queen to the original box she should be laying again.
Also waiting / hoping for a successful mating is not impacting on the main hive and potential further delays.
You may already have a frame of eggs in the nuc, if not most colonies should be able to spare one.
I don't think moving the queen and QC is that great a risk.
Simon

It’s actually quite useful to have a slightly longer brood break at times

 

[simonwig]

It’s actually quite useful to have a slightly longer brood break at times

Any particular reason, as I recall from HM's posts the method kills the swarming instinct, and it's worked for me.
The sooner there's a laying queen the better for me and the honey crop.

Simon

 

[Erichalfbee]

Any particular reason, as I recall from HM's posts the method kills the swarming instinct, and it's worked for me.
The sooner there's a laying queen the better for me and the honey crop.

Simon

OAV

 

[Sanntos]

...I was planning to split each hive in mid March .....

A split made too small may never really take off. I would wait until there are drones, giving the three colonies time to build up. If you do that and also buys ten queen cells from some fellow beekeeper...

 

[simonwig]

OAV

I'm interpreting this as oxalic acid vaping. 7 days after the Q re-introduction there should be very little sealed brood (only from your frame of eggs). Unless you've a major mite problem you could vape then, if you have a major mite problem you may have another priority.
Simon

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm interpreting this as oxalic acid vaping. 7 days after the Q re-introduction there should be very little sealed brood (only from your frame of eggs). Unless you've a major mite problem you could vape then, if you have a major mite problem you may have another priority.
Simon

I take every opportunity to vape my bees, but I must admit to being pretty lazy as most of my swarm control is by Demaree or nucing the queen simply.
I did twice try Wally Shaw’s Snelgrove. Once it worked but the second time I reintroduced the queen the bees killed her

 

[Boston Bees]

I rejected Wally's split method as soon as I read to the end, having done all the splitting etc, and he then instructed me to feck around swapping the queen from the (happily established) nuc back into the main hive again, where she originally came from, for no good reason, and exchange it for a QC. Perfectionist fiddling, and just more to go wrong.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I rejected Wally's split method as soon as I read to the end, having done all the splitting etc, and he then instructed me to feck around swapping the queen from the (happily established) nuc back into the main hive again, where she originally came from, for no good reason, and exchange it for a QC. Perfectionist fiddling, and just more to go wrong.

I, unfortunately, had to go through the ritual of discovering for myself. And as for bees not swarming on Emergency QCs.....pah!

 

[user 20297]

I, unfortunately, had to go through the ritual of discovering for myself. And as for bees not swarming on Emergency QCs.....pah!

Pah #2!