What did you do in the Apiary today?

[Moobee]

Are you saying the queens disappeared leaving the colonies queen less or did you find queen cells after you discovered them missing?

For me - previous inspection 6 days ago - queen seen & BIAS, a few play cups (zero charged QCs). 6 days later, no eggs, queen disappeared and sealed QCs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

swarmed

 

[BeeBird]

Are you saying the queens disappeared leaving the colonies queen less or did you find queen cells after you discovered them missing?

All the colonies are inspected every 7 day’s. Caught sight of 2 of the Queen’s, all looked good with no Qcells seen. 7 day’s later there were a number of very small capped cells and no Queens, colonies have likely swarmed but I’m shocked at the lack of visible preparations 7 day’s before.
The 3rd one no sign of Queen, eggs or larvae, so she’s either a slow starter or has gone aswell. No cells to be seen so I’ve put a test frame in there to see if they are Q-

 

[Erichalfbee]

For me - previous inspection 6 days ago - queen seen & BIAS, a few play cups (zero charged QCs). 6 days later, no eggs, queen disappeared and sealed QCs.

Yes swarmed. You missed queen cells.

 

[Erichalfbee]

shocked at the lack of visible preparations 7 day’s before.

Did you shake the bees off the frames ?

 

[BeeBird]

Did you shake the bees off the frames ?

I do give the brood frames a shake after I have had an initial look over the frames for Queen. I can’t say I shake every bee off, but I do think I get a fairly decent view of the frames.
During swarm season do other beekeepers shake the bees off every frame in their BB’s at every inspection?

 

[Moobee]

Yes swarmed. You missed queen cells.

Pretty certain I didn’t. I shook the bees off in both which I always do if I see play cups. Why swarm when you have a new laying queen & plenty of space having recently been split?
Addendum to this - both queens were clipped and wouldn’t have got very far if that was the case….

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why swarm when you have a new laying queen & plenty of space having recently been split?

they're bees - why not?

 

[The Poot]

Pretty certain I didn’t. I shook the bees off in both which I always do if I see play cups. Why swarm when you have a new laying queen & plenty of space having recently been split?

Very odd, I agree.

 

[JamezF]

Pretty certain I didn’t. I shook the bees off in both which I always do if I see play cups. Why swarm when you have a new laying queen & plenty of space having recently been split?

I'm not sure we genuinely fully understand what triggers the swarming instinct in honey bees and how it plays out in terms of the behaviour of the colony. It's often taught that "if any of conditions X or Y or Z hold then the bees are likely to swarm and otherwise they won't, but is that absolutely true? And even in contexts when we think we do understand, perhaps there are circumstances that can mislead us.

For example, say you have a new laying queen with lots of space to use, but because of some odd random genetic roll of the dice she doesn't produce as much tarsal pheromone as "normal" queens: she's a freak and humans can't see it. But bees can perceive it and behave accordingly.

James

 

[Wilco]

I'm seeing some colonies making swarm preps now that hadn't earlier.

Checked 14 colonies today, decided to leave three others alone as they *should* have plenty of space. The double brood colony at my parents I put a fourth shallow on as the heather begins although afterwards a few of the guards were hunting around meaning we couldn't have a cuppa outside. I'm not impressed as they were lovely last year but this year are definitely twitchy. Best explanation I can come up with is the queen sequentially going through drone semen and she's currently using the stuff from drones of less docile lineage. Very productive though. May be another to RQ...

 

[Antipodes]

Pretty certain I didn’t. I shook the bees off in both which I always do if I see play cups. Why swarm when you have a new laying queen & plenty of space having recently been split?
Addendum to this - both queens were clipped and wouldn’t have got very far if that was the case….

In a situation like this Moobee, given all the details you have provided, I'd say that the it was most likely that the queen was killed (cause not known - perhaps as per posts 40,639 and 40,656 - although I have seen it happen with an unmarked/unclipped queen) and the colony has made cells to replace the queen.

 

[Swarm]

She’s a lovely little thing

Well spotted, Emily.
Easier to see here.

 

[Moobee]

Pretty certain I didn’t. I shook the bees off in both which I always do if I see play cups. Why swarm when you have a new laying queen & plenty of space having recently been split?

I'm not sure we genuinely fully understand what triggers the swarming instinct in honey bees and how it plays out in terms of the behaviour of the colony. It's often taught that "if any of conditions X or Y or Z hold then the bees are likely to swarm and otherwise they won't, but is that absolutely true? And even in contexts when we think we do understand, perhaps there are circumstances that can mislead us.

For example, say you have a new laying queen with lots of space to use, but because of some odd random genetic roll of the dice she doesn't produce as much tarsal pheromone as "normal" queens: she's a freak and humans can't see it. But bees can perceive it and behave accordingly.

James

Good points. I’m thinking poorly mated & lack of pheromones could be the answer but as everyone says, they’re bees, who knows?!

 

[Garry R]

everyone says, they’re bees, who knows?!

The bees know but they don't actually "know" - they react to instincts and neither the bees nor beekeepers know all of those or how they interact, thank goodness - it's complicated enough!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pretty certain I didn’t. I shook the bees off in both which I always do if I see play cups.

bees are very adept at concealing QCs, especially, I've found if the beekeeper obsessively tears down playcups as soon as they appear.
I once found a vacated QC which was actually tucked in so deep that the top end of the cell started on the other side of the comb so the capped end was no more prominent than a drone cell and the other end (on the other side) just looked like a capped worker cell. I also found one on an old comb last month which was built completely vertical, against the middle septum and tucked between two rows of worker cells - almost impossible to spot until vacated.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Good points. I’m thinking poorly mated & lack of pheromones could be the answer but as everyone says, they’re bees, who knows?!

I’ve had two colonies I split by putting the queen in a nuc for swarm management. Both failed to mate so I reunited one and replaced the other.

 

[SWEET]

Why swarm when you have recently been split?

The bees might have been pondering swarming before the spilt and decided to go anyway (i've seen this happen with rammed nucs moved into full hives, they decided before the move and go regardless of space (even after weeks had passed).

 

[E&MBees]

Returned some extracted supers. Some colonies have repaired and refilled last weeks extracted ones, others think summer is over! Moved the empties around to optimise space. Checked a recently added second brood box to a 2024 queen. Bees are drawing out the foundation nicely.

 

[madasafish]

Pretty certain I didn’t. I shook the bees off in both which I always do if I see play cups. Why swarm when you have a new laying queen & plenty of space having recently been split?

They don't like you/the hive/the surroundings/ they have been predated/overheated/cold/.....think of any of multiple reasons..

I do no inspections with 5 supers on...too feeble /lazy etc