Weak Queenless Hive

[GoldenHive]

Evening All,

I would very much appreciate some advice from the hive mind if possible please

I have 2 hives. 1 hive is strong, disease-free, and queen right. 1 hive is weak, queenless, and varroa ridden. I am going to treat them both with oxalic vape this week to sort the varroa issue.

- Will moving a frame or 2 of brood and eggs from the strong hive into the weak be beneficial to them?

- Will moving them into a 6 frame nuc over winter be beneficial to them?

- Are there any secrets to preventing the colony from going laying worker? I ask this because I plan to requeen in spring.

Thank you for reading!

 

[JamezF]

the hive mind

I see what you did there

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

a queenless hive is doomed at this time of year and won't last the winter, varroa or no
Even requeening now is pretty pointless

 

[pargyle]

Evening All,

I would very much appreciate some advice from the hive mind if possible please

I have 2 hives. 1 hive is strong, disease-free, and queen right. 1 hive is weak, queenless, and varroa ridden. I am going to treat them both with oxalic vape this week to sort the varroa issue.

- Will moving a frame or 2 of brood and eggs from the strong hive into the weak be beneficial to them?

- Will moving them into a 6 frame nuc over winter be beneficial to them?

- Are there any secrets to preventing the colony from going laying worker? I ask this because I plan to requeen in spring.

Thank you for reading!

No .. waste of time donating brood to a weak hive. If it is truly queenless combine it with your strong hive and make the most of the bees (and if there is any brood left). It's too late now for sensible requeening - either letting them make one or buying one in.

Once you have treated, if there is no brood in the weak hive you could wait for a dry day and just shake them out in front of your other hive but I would probably just tip them into your other hive with a squirt of air freshener - quicker and easier than a newspaper combine.

You can always split and add a queen in the Sprint or Demaree ...

 

[ericbeaumont]

preventing the colony from going laying worker

Regular addition of open brood is a common recipe to deter LWs but context is all: imagine the outcome should a virgin emerge at this time of year: yep, zero chance of mating.

Are there any secrets?

Not for your current issue - JBM & Pargyle have solved that - but I encourage you to be proactive when dealing with problems. For example, the colony must have been weak and queenless for quite a while, but why was that allowed to drift?

 

[Swarm]

Let them dwindle, I wouldn't unite them with your currently strong hive.

 

[madasafish]

You have one strong hive which should overwinter OK.
You have one hive which is doomed: too late to requeen and any brood given will be wasted as a new Q will have no drones to mate with.
Why risk a unite? Your weak hive has a varroa issue - which means it will compromise your strong one. Just let it die.
You do not want to compromise in any way the strong hive's ability to survive..

 

[pargyle]

You have one strong hive which should overwinter OK.
You have one hive which is doomed: too late to requeen and any brood given will be wasted as a new Q will have no drones to mate with.
Why risk a unite? Your weak hive has a varroa issue - which means it will compromise your strong one. Just let it die.
You do not want to compromise in any way the strong hive's ability to survive..

But ... with no brood in the box a blast with OA will be 97% effective, perhaps 2 blasts and check the forced drop on the board - why waste the bees that are left there - Ivy still in bloom so you are not detracting from the strong hive you would be adding to their workforce. Clean out the empty box, treat for waxmoth and put it in store for Spring when you are ready to split.

 

[madasafish]

But ... with no brood in the box a blast with OA will be 97% effective, perhaps 2 blasts and check the forced drop on the board - why waste the bees that are left there - Ivy still in bloom so you are not detracting from the strong hive you would be adding to their workforce. Clean out the empty box, treat for waxmoth and put it in store for Spring when you are ready to split.

Ivy is not in bloom here yet. The OP is further North - York.. It may not be in bloom there either And the "bad case of varroa" may involve quite a lot of diseased bees you would not want

(Darn Southerners!

 

[Swarm]

Ivy is not in bloom here yet. The OP is further North - York.. It may not be in bloom there either And the "bad case of varroa" may involve quite a lot of diseased bees you would not want

(Darn Southerners!

Precisely that, the damage has already been done. You need healthy bees to raise healthy bees.

 

[pargyle]

Precisely that, the damage has already been done. You need healthy bees to raise healthy bees.

So ... you leave them to dwindle ? The odds are that, if they are truly queenless, they will drift to the other strong hive or worse still the strong hive will rob them out with an equal chance of disease spreading (if there is any disease).

As I said originally - AFTER treating for varroa (and obviously inspecting for any disease) and being certain they are queenless the option to combine them is there ... there are equal (if not more) risks from letting a weak hive next to a strong hive dwindle.

Either way, the OP is shutting the door after the horse has bolted - should have noticed earlier there were problems with the weak colony, probably treated for varroa before this but, this is the Beginners section and it's a lesson learned. We've all been there at some point.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ivy is not in bloom here yet. The OP is further North - York.. It may not be in bloom there either And the "bad case of varroa" may involve quite a lot of diseased bees you would not want

(Darn Southerners!

although the ivy around here has been opening sporadically in the last month, it's only in the last few days it has really got going with bees bringing in ivy pollen in significant quantities and apiaries reeking of ripening ivy honey

 

[jimmiestan]

Ivy flowering well here on the Black Isle

 

[Swarm]

So ... you leave them to dwindle ? The odds are that, if they are truly queenless, they will drift to the other strong hive or worse still the strong hive will rob them out with an equal chance of disease spreading (if there is any disease).

As I said originally - AFTER treating for varroa (and obviously inspecting for any disease) and being certain they are queenless the option to combine them is there ... there are equal (if not more) risks from letting a weak hive next to a strong hive dwindle.

Either way, the OP is shutting the door after the horse has bolted - should have noticed earlier there were problems with the weak colony, probably treated for varroa before this but, this is the Beginners section and it's a lesson learned. We've all been there at some point.

You can treat against varroa and kill mites all you like, it doesn't undo the damage they have already done. The other colony is strong and healthy, they certainly don't need the burden of sick bees.

 

[pargyle]

You can treat against varroa and kill mites all you like, it doesn't undo the damage they have already done. The other colony is strong and healthy, they certainly don't need the burden of sick bees.

If they were sick I would agree with you but it sounds from the OP that they have been queenless and not treated for varroa early enough - they may not be sick .. just low in numbers. I'd be having a good look at the frames before I waste them. They will get robbed out if he just leaves them to it ...

 

[ericbeaumont]

Just let it die.
You do not want to compromise in any way the strong hive's ability to survive

robbed out if he just leaves them to it ...

Drawback of the stress of slow decline could be the appearance of sac, bald, or chalk brood and perhaps even EFB.

Robbing must be avoided, and if they're not going anywhere, pour into the feedhole at dusk a few pints of water+washing-up liquid. Burn the dead bees & combs and scrub the kit in hot washing soda or cold bleach.

 

[pargyle]

Drawback of the stress of slow decline could be the appearance of sac, bald, or chalk brood and perhaps even EFB.

Robbing must be avoided, and if they're not going anywhere, pour into the feedhole at dusk a few pints of water+washing-up liquid. Burn the dead bees & combs and scrub the kit in hot washing soda or cold bleach.

Goodness ... you are all so pessimistic ... bees can dwindle without any disease being involved - yes, be aware of it but it's not every colony that has some varroa in it that is disease ridden !

We don't know any more than in the first post where the OP was talking about trying to rescue them to get them through winter ... he's not been back since Thursday but hopefully in the sun today he's had chance to have a closer look and tell us a bit more than he has so far ...

 

[Antipodes]

As I said originally - AFTER treating for varroa (and obviously inspecting for any disease)

I don't want to gang up on you here, and I'm not disagreeing with your suggested options, but wouldn't it now be difficult to usefully inspect for diseases of the brood?

 

[pargyle]

I don't want to gang up on you here, and I'm not disagreeing with your suggested options, but wouldn't it now be difficult to usefully inspect for diseases of the brood?

No ... it was 18 degrees here in the sun today, I was adding empty brood frames to hives today to get them drawn whilst I am feeding them ... I wasn't dragging every frame out and I was quick but it's not mid-winter by any stretch.

If the colony is weak then what difference will having a look at them make ? If they are doomed ... might as well see what the problem is !#

BTW - I don't feel ganged up upon .. there is always several different answers to the same question in beekeeping - often, all of them are right. At the end of the day the bees belong to the OP beekeeping is al about making personal decisions. Right or wrong in the long term.

 

[Antipodes]

No ... it was 18 degrees here in the sun today, I was adding empty brood frames to hives today to get them drawn whilst I am feeding them ... I wasn't dragging every frame out and I was quick but it's not mid-winter by any stretch.

If the colony is weak then what difference will having a look at them make ? If they are doomed ... might as well see what the problem is !#

BTW - I don't feel ganged up upon .. there is always several different answers to the same question in beekeeping - often, all of them are right. At the end of the day the bees belong to the OP beekeeping is al about making personal decisions. Right or wrong in the long term.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. It’s not an issue with the weather but I assume there isn’t any brood to look at in the hive in question? Have I misunderstood?