Wax foundation

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VAT to be increased to 27% in April..... just paid 99p for one liter of petrol and £1.98 for two liters of whole farmfresh Cornish cow milk.

All Great News I am sure... what we really, really need is massive inflation, and mass unemployment to bring priced down!!!

Yeghes da

Where did you hear about the vat rate going up? would have thought it was on all the new reports and newspapers by now if it were.
 
Maybe it will go up in price a bit more now, been too cheap anyway.

Perhaps thats your view. I doubt you'd say that if you had to buy all your foundation.
I probably use in the region of 2-3 boxes of deep langstroth foundation per colony per year. It adds up to quit a lot of money.
 
I probably use in the region of 2-3 boxes of deep langstroth foundation per colony per year. It adds up to quit a lot of money.

I would have thought on your scale you could get your own recovered wax milled for you?

Its not expensive. Last year it cost about 1.64 a kilo for conversion from block wax to foundation made to our own sizes. 12/13 sheets per kilo for decent stuff, more if you take it thinner but we think that a false economy. Wax cost about 1.40 a box including shipping up down to and back up from the wax processor. Not a fair comparison with foundation prices though, as of course the wax itself has a value, this cost is ONLY the processing charge.

Not possible for us to make foundation even close to economically when those with top line wax plants can do it for this price, and with flawless quality and reliable thickness.

Have considered installing a foundation plant, but unless prepared to spend an absolute minimum of 40k we cant even get close to doing it for the big boy's price. Smaller set ups have a unit labour cost more than the current outfit do it for.

However, in general wax has gone up a lot in bulk price over the last couple of years from all sources. There is a shortage worldwide and beekeepers are not the only users. Its just the way the market works and it is not a rip off as implied earlier in the thread albeit a good year and more ago.


ps...for those reading this and thinking 12 sheets a kilo is not a lot. B+ was talking about Lang deep wax and this is a direct reply to that. Number of sheets per Kg goes up sharply for Lang medium and BS deep and shallow....the other sizes we get made. Price also does not include wiring as we have long since converted to wired frames rather than wired wax.
 
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Our langstroth foundation is 100 g. One box needs 1.0 kg foundations.

Reason is that bees save honey when they use ready recycled wax,
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A foundation kilo made from own wax is £3/kg.

With one kilo wax I save 8 kg honey. 3 foundation boxes/ hive is equal 15-20 kg yield. It depends, are boxes mediums or langstroths.

Recycling wax is a good job.
 
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The bigger the yield, the more you get uncapping wax.
Uncapping fork gives very little.
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Interested to know the advantage to wiring the frames rather than using wired wax?

Thanks

The wax can be melted out (like this French lady does https://youtu.be/OiNRi4JCpF4) and unwired wax foundation put onto the wires. A current is passed through the wire and it melts the wax enough to hold it in place.
- no need for wired foundation so cost is less
- no need to mess about with wooden restraining strip so less damage to the frames
- steam kills any parasites (waxmoth) so frames are clean
 
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Perhaps thats your view. I doubt you'd say that if you had to buy all your foundation.


My view is that beeswax is a valuable product of the hive, much the same as things like honey, propolis, etc, so I like it when any of these products which
our bees produce, and we sell to make a living, occasionally go up in price... and sell for a little bit more.

Haven't bought any for years, the bees produce enough surplus wax to more than cover our needs, why don't yours?
 
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My view is that beeswax is a valuable product of the hive, much the same as things like honey, propolis, etc, so I like it when any of these products which
our bees produce, and we sell to make a living, occasionally go up in price... and sell for a little bit more.

Haven't bought any for years, the bees produce enough surplus wax to more than cover our needs, why don't yours?

Yes & no, still expanding so no but all things considered equal yes but time consuming on a small scale. even with a foundation mould
 
Yes & no, still expanding so no but all things considered equal yes but time consuming on a small scale. even with a foundation mould

Time consuming yes, but i look at like this. If you can get a small scale wax foundation system going, not even as big as "Hivemakers" set up for example, it surely must be sustainable. There is always time in the winter to make up foundation. An investment that might take 5 to 10 years to pay off, is still an investment worthwhile, if you know the annual costs of foundation and what you reckon you can make it for.
We all know that all beekeeping is pretty labour intensive, so putting that aside if your happy to put the time in, then i see no reason why its not worthwhile.
saying that, we can get our frames delivered, assembled and wired, to a high quality for less than a euro each. its really not worth us bothering to saw up the wood, (when we struggle to get hold of that)
I think all of these things depend on how much time you are prepared to spend on these additional production areas versus material costs!
 
The wax shortage in Europe had a very bad ending for a few countries. They purchased several tonnes of wax from China that wound up being adulterated with paraffin and other cheap waxes. Whatever it was killed brood in the frame. I strongly believe in recycling wax!
 
My view is that beeswax is a valuable product of the hive, much the same as things like honey, propolis, etc, so I like it when any of these products which our bees produce, and we sell to make a living, occasionally go up in price... and sell for a little bit more.

oh, don't get me wrong: I agree with you. They are valuable. Its just that some of us haven't yet reached the scale when we produce enough wax for all of our needs. This can add up to quite a cost.
 
It would be nice if us smaller operators could send our wax to a bigger one who would kindly return it with nice fresh wired foundation, small charge obviously [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The wax shortage in Europe had a very bad ending for a few countries. They purchased several tonnes of wax from China that wound up being adulterated with paraffin and other cheap waxes. Whatever it was killed brood in the frame. I strongly believe in recycling wax!

Link?
 
It would be nice if us smaller operators could send our wax to a bigger one who would kindly return it with nice fresh wired foundation, small charge obviously [emoji6]

Maisie's do a wax exchange as do big t's
 
I know but you don't know who's wax you get back I'm a bit fussy like that [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MBC, here is a picture of a frame on the right with the contaminated wax. http://www.immenfreunde.de/pics2/wachs/Netherlands.jpg

There was a decent amount of discussion about this on Beesource. Several of the German speaking members contributed first hand experiences.

http://adara.adafrance.org/infos/Qlte_cire.php

Interesting pics.....but....

Cutting wax with paraffin wax for foundation making long predates the current ongoing wax shortage.

Several years ago I was at a foundation plant in Spain....actually it took in peoples old combs as is, cleaned them all out through a boiling bath, sterilised the frames, recovered all the wax, and paid the beekeepers accordingly and then they got their own frames back (they were all branded with the beekeepers reg number). They had at least 100 tonnes of wax in stock, all graded by colour and whether it was derived from old combs or cappings. You could choose the wax your foundation would be made from.

They were able to do 6 tonnes of foundation per day.

They were on the point of completing a foundation order then that was price sensitive and the client had chosen the cheaper darker wax from old combs and it was being cut with paraffin wax too....astonishingly the end product was 70% paraffin wax. They were on the last pallet when I saw it, and there were already 27 pallets ready....so it was a LOT of foundation.

This was the clients specification, and later I met the client and he insisted this made no difference at all to how well the bees did on the foundation. The destination was outside Europe. The foundation looked normal, smelled normal and I doubt many could have picked the difference.

However,,,,the pics in the links are interesting and definitely merit further investigation and my main suspicion would fall on varroacide impregnation of the wax. This is given the other information provided. But the Netherlands comb looks odd. From their format it looks as if they may have come from the same hive but do look incredibly different,

Most of the vacant cells in the centre of the comb are brown (in the other link they are not so that one for sure looks like the brood failed to come to anything, reason not certain) so they have had brood in the dark cells that has, a least once, gone full cycle, Did it hatch normally or die in the pupal stage? Don't know. But...and its a BIG 'but' given the picture is of inadequate scale and sharpness to know.............a significant number of the cells are very much darker than the medium brown ones around them. This would ring all kinds of alarm bells at first glance and I would immediately be looking at that comb to see if those dark cells were due to scale being present. As I say, not a good enough picture to know, but it would be the first thing I looked for before other bogeymen were given priority.

Slightly reminiscent of the time neonics were flavour of the day...all sorts were blamed on them....and quite few 'proof' pics and videos did the rounds....but if you looked closely you could see failing queen evidence, drone layers, and deformed wings.

As for Chinese wax? Well any responsible foundation maker will need to see a detailed analysis of the lot they are buying. There has been some very contaminated wax from there in the past, especially if it has been milled into foundation at source, but most is just fine. The main reason I don't like it is that it is soft and deforms more easily than wax from several other provenances.

Going back to the picture where the spotty brood was among virgin coloured cells........we used to see that quite often on new wax but not for some years now. We have rationalised what WE were seeing in a rather different way, to do with breeding and chalk brood resistance, and possibly the detergent used on the rollers to make the foundation release. We often got some really rubbish first brood in a comb. Since then we have improved our breeding methods, never taking queens from colonies that show a significant amount of chalk, and use different makers to produce our wax. Now we rarely see this.

We are not so arrogant to believe that our wax stock is any better than anyone else's for residues from varroa treatments, and it will have amounts of all the common varroacides some from many years back, and we have imported foundation from USA, New Zealand, France and Spain before, and even Chinese wax derived but UK milled foundation some 30 years ago. Tiny proportions of all of these will be lurking in the wax blocks we have sitting ready to go for milling today, and all the oil miscible varroa treatments get into the wax and stay there almost forever.

All would merit some detailed investigation...generated from a neutral standpoint. The Netherlands comb is indeed a weird one.
 

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