Warmimg crystallized honey at 35 degrees

[thibault]

Does anyone have experience warming crystallized honey at only 35 degrees (to keep it kind of raw), how many days are required? Bucket of 10kg has been sitting in my warming cabinet for 2 days,the honey is much more runny but you can still feel small grains.

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[Popparand]

Does anyone have experience warming crystallized honey at only 35 degrees (to keep it kind of raw), how many days are required? Bucket of 10kg has been sitting in my warming cabinet for 2 days,the honey is much more runny but you can still feel small grains.

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I have been warming 30 lb buckets of last year's crop at c. 40 centigrade in an insulated hot box. After three days the honey was not fully liquidised. I read somewhere that honey is good insulation - so it takes a long time to warm through thoroughly.

In future I am proposing to leave it in for up to a week at around 35 degrees. After all that's the temperature the bees keep it at!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Does anyone have experience warming crystallized honey at only 35 degrees (to keep it kind of raw), how many days are required? Bucket of 10kg has been sitting in my warming cabinet for 2 days,the honey is much more runny but you can still feel small grains.

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Try warming in a water bath?
I prefer my Lidl tea urn which can take a 30lb bucket.

 

[ics19]

Does the temperature not depend on what you want to achieve? 35C throughout is good to make it easy to re-strain before jarring, but no matter how long you leave it at 35C, it won't de-crystalise fully I believe. For that, it needs to 42C at least and maybe 45C tops for the minimum amount of time to avoid HMF changes and keep it 'legal' in the definition of honey. Gently stirring a couple of times will allow it to heat through evenly. Even then, once fully de-crystalised it will eventually set depending on the sugars, so you may need to seed with a fine grade for a soft set...

We've been using a pasteuriser* water urn/tank too and set the temperature control to 42C - easily does ~10kg in a bucket over night.

* made for apple juice bottles!

 

[thibault]

Does the temperature not depend on what you want to achieve? 35C throughout is good to make it easy to re-strain before jarring, but no matter how long you leave it at 35C, it won't de-crystalise fully I believe. For that, it needs to 42C at least and maybe 45C tops for the minimum amount of time to avoid HMF changes and keep it 'legal' in the definition of honey. Gently stirring a couple of times will allow it to heat through evenly. Even then, once fully de-crystalised it will eventually set depending on the sugars, so you may need to seed with a fine grade for a soft set...

We've been using a pasteuriser* water urn/tank too and set the temperature control to 42C - easily does ~10kg in a bucket over night.

* made for apple juice bottles!

Very interesting, I want to make soft set, my seed is ready, so I think I need the honey to be fully "decrystallised"

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[thibault]

I have been warming 30 lb buckets of last year's crop at c. 40 centigrade in an insulated hot box. After three days the honey was not fully liquidised. I read somewhere that honey is good insulation - so it takes a long time to warm through thoroughly.

In future I am proposing to leave it in for up to a week at around 35 degrees. After all that's the temperature the bees keep it at!

I could try for a week, but electricty??? Lol

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[ics19]

I could try for a week, but electricty???

You could try this approach for soft set:

https://www.theapiarist.org/tag/soft-set/

but other methods are available and some even open to discussion such as:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10494

 

[Beefriendly]

In future I am proposing to leave it in for up to a week at around 35 degrees. After all that's the temperature the bees keep it at!

No, they keep the brood at 34-35C not the whole hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I could try for a week,

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Well that's your 'raw' (whatever that's supposed to mean) status out the window, I think a week at 35 degrees is probably a lot worse than an overnight blast at 45

 

[Millet]

Well that's your 'raw' (whatever that's supposed to mean) status out the window, I think a week at 35 degrees is probably a lot worse than an overnight blast at 45

Why..? ..

 

[Newbeeneil]

This might answer a few questions.
http://www.sheffieldbeekeepers.org.uk/important-temperatures-beekeeping/

 

[ics19]

This might answer a few questions.
http://www.sheffieldbeekeepers.org.uk/important-temperatures-beekeeping/

Thanks for that - some surprising figures, but live and learn etc. Maybe too fine a line between "liquefy/delay granulation" values and "spoil honey" for my skills though I'm guessing a 66C bucket would take 6hrs or more at room temperature to come down to seeding temperature, so must involve a blast in the freezer with regular stirring to minimise any degrading. Not sure I'll be doing the 49C "to bottle honey" step as 35C would seem more than enough to make it flow easily?

 

[Curley]

: I'm guessing a 66C bucket would take 6hrs or more at room temperature to come down to seeding temperature, so must involve a blast in the freezer with regular stirring to minimise any degrading. Not sure I'll be doing the 49C "to bottle honey" step as 35C would seem more than enough to make it flow easily?

Some of the temperatures quoted in the link seem very high to me.

50 celsius for two days has always been enough for me to liquefy even OSR honey in 30lb buckets.
Let it cool before seeding - more than 6 hours I would suggest.

Bottling temperature - 35 to get it from the bucket into the settling tank (if you're using one - before the jug boys jump in), but 25 degrees is good for bottling run honey - less likely to incorporate bubbles.

Likewise yates temperatures are good for delaying granulation - if you are putting it in a shop say. 55 degrees, 45 minutes

 

[Rooster007]

There is a pretty good video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWugwfMct9o from The Norfolk Honey company that shows the process along with temperatures etc. along with reasoning behind some of the higher temps.

I've been trying it out but still struggling with the starter as I think my honey is not "set enough" to start with to break the cystals down.

The pestle and mortar is hard work though.

 

[Curley]

Ah I see - basically pasteurising the honey. Well blow that for a game of soldiers. If you use honey that is going to crystallise anyway, the setting process should be quick and the problems of fermentation won't arise. And a good reason to make your soft set in winter, when optimal crystallising temperatures (14c) are easier to achieve and there is little else beekeeping work to do.

 

[Popparand]

I could try for a week, but electricty??? Lol

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Not really. With a 60 - 180 watt heat source, thermostatic control and a well insulated box, power input is minimal (apart from what is needed to warm the honey anyway).

 

[Popparand]

Why..? ..

I am surprised there are so many different opinions about warming honey. Ted Hooper recommends:

32c for 2-5 days to turn crystallised honey into a slurry that can be bottled
52c for 2 days to liquidise but still plenty of small crystals
62c for one hour (when jarred) to fully liquidise.

30 lb buckets of hard set honey will not liquidise fully at 32c. Maybe the answer is to turn it into a slurry, jar it and then heat before sale to liquidise. But that means you cant let it settle before jarring...…

Also is the water content the same inside each crystal and in the liquid?

There must be an optimal solution. Wish I knew what it is.

 

[sean-a]

I have stuck a few buckets in the back of my car.
It was going to be sunny this week, so I was hoping that a few days parked at the railway station in the sun may get it back to liquid.
Free heating and a wasp free environment, assuming that I remembered to close the windows!

 

[masterBK]

There will be more water in the "motherliquor" (containing the fructose) surrounding the crystals than locked up in the glucose crystals. This is the main reason that granulated honey is more likely to ferment than liquid honey.