Warm way or cold way?

[user 6228]

its because you have created a duct to force air through the mesh with the tray being the bottom wall of the duct.

 

[user 20297]

its because you have created a duct to force air through the mesh with the tray being the bottom wall of the duct.

Thank-you @derekm. I get so wound-up about drafts up the bees' backsides. Currently, we are experiencing a cold, easterly wind and my hives face south-east and are open to fields. Yesterday I got so concerned for the poor dears that I put some rough boards at an angle to the hives to deflect the wind. I'm probably creating random eddies that make things worse; but I feel better about it.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

At 20C, in an absence of obstruction by hive stands or bees, wind underneath at low velocity bends in as it crosses under the floor walls. it then hits the far side floor wall. Part of it is deflected upwards. This part goes through the mesh up the brood box wall, hits the crownboard and then moves across the frames along the crown board.
It wont matter warm way or cold way as the wind can always come from another direction.

I can see clearly now...
But thank you.

 

[The Poot]

I can see clearly now...
But thank you.

That was Johnny Nash, Shirley? But he was on about rain. Does that have an impact?

(Couldn’t resist, sorry✌)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm sure you're right that it makes no difference to the bees. But there are advantages to the beekeeper which are more than just where you want to stand during inspections. Some on here have already hinted at this.

I beg to differ, makes no difference to the bee or the keeper (notwithstanding where you like to stand)

 

[user 6228]

That was Johnny Nash, Shirley? But he was on about rain. Does that have an impact?

(Couldn’t resist, sorry✌)

a big big impact ... Try going outside in rain without a hat and coat. Does it feel as though your heat loss changes?

 

[The Poot]

a big big impact ... Try going outside in rain without a hat and coat. Does it feel as though your heat loss changes?

My question wasn’t a serious one Derek. I was being frivolous as usual.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I beg to differ, makes no difference to the bee or the keeper (notwithstanding where you like to stand)

No problem. But I'd find it helpful to hear why.

Everyone agrees warm way/cold way makes no difference to the bees. But no difference for the beekeeper?

As I said, a beekeeper suggested to me three ways in which manipulations by beekeepers might be aided by choosing warm way over cold way (getting combs of mostly pollen, or mostly honey, or getting drawn comb). I am keen why you don't think there's anything in this. I think you said earlier that pollen tends to be nearer the front and honey nearer the back of the box. So cold way frames will have something of everything and warm way, a bit more 'specialised'.

I haven't yet tried it this out for myself. And as my hives are cold way just now, I don't want to change things for no benefit.

Because of lockdown last year, my beekeeping grew from 2 colonies to 13, all from swarm collecting (no one else was available). I have to learn quickly, and advice from people who've already been there can speed up the process.

Many thanks.
Archie

 

[rolande]

We use cold way in the modified dadants and warm way in the bs boxes. The one real beekeeper advantage that I see is the ability to pull an extra comb or two of honey from the back of the bs boxes. With a regular comb renewal in September this works fine with no detriment to the bees.

As colonies go into autumn, the brood nest will be by the entrance with the honey behind and above, so the food can be protected;

 

[North End Bees]

I think you said earlier that pollen tends to be nearer the front and honey nearer the back of the box.

The pollen at front/stores at back layout of warm way frames can also have implications for over-winter access to stores. In autumn, warm way colonies have their nest nearer the front of the hive and can slowly move through the stores to the back over the course of winter. Likelihood of isolation starvation reduced.
If a nest starts off more centrally, on cold-way frames near the entrance, the bees will move to the left or right following stores. In the event of a prolonged cold spell (without warm days to recluster on the stores at the other end of the hive) chances of isolation starvation are increased.

 

[Ian123]

Dear god when will it end don’t bees store it in the location they want until I move it of course.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No problem. But I'd find it helpful to hear why.

Everyone agrees warm way/cold way makes no difference to the bees. But no difference for the beekeeper?

As I said, a beekeeper suggested to me three ways in which manipulations by beekeepers might be aided by choosing warm way over cold way (getting combs of mostly pollen, or mostly honey, or getting drawn comb). I am keen why you don't think there's anything in this. I think you said earlier that pollen tends to be nearer the front and honey nearer the back of the box. So cold way frames will have something of everything and warm way, a bit more 'specialised'.

I regularly get frames full of pollen on cold way setup, same with honey - it's only near the brood nest that they tend to store it fore and aft, or at the end of the season when they're arranging winter stores (when only a fool would start taking it away) so I think your beekeeper isn't completely right, and anyhow, by the time the colony is strong enough for you to be able to rob it of anything most frames will have brood.
As for the'sweet spot' for comb drawing, try thinking in three dimensions - every hive (cold or warm way) has a 'middle' which could be warmer and more condusive to comb drawing same as each and every frame will have an area which is nearest the sides thus colder.

In autumn, warm way colonies have their nest nearer the front of the hive and can slowly move through the stores to the back over the course of winter.

Exactly the same as what happens in a cold way hive.
We're dealing with self perpetuating myths once again

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I regularly get frames full of pollen on cold way setup, ...

Many thanks. Very helpful.

 

[North End Bees]

Exactly the same as what happens in a cold way hive.
We're dealing with self perpetuating myths once again

I've got hives on both ways and the nests always start autumn near the entrance whether cold or warm way frames. So with a 2" entrance in the entrance block the nest is several frames from one side on cold way. It may well be different on your hives with full slot underfloor entrances (depending how far forward they are).

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Dear god when will it end

Dear Ian. Never, I'm afraid. There will always be people for whom all this is new.
God

 

[Erichalfbee]

The pollen at front/stores at back layout of warm way frames can also have implications for over-winter access to stores. In autumn, warm way colonies have their nest nearer the front of the hive

That depends where the entrance is.

 

[North End Bees]

That depends where the entrance is.

Yes, as I mentioned in my second post after the one quoted.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, as I mentioned in my second post after the one quoted.

Oooops so you did.

 

[OldFarm]

Someone told me yesterday that warm way can be useful if you have a bad tempered hive. By not touching the frame by the entrance during inspection (it's not going to have any brood in it anyway) not all of the guard bees will be alerted to your intrusion. Having had a 'hive from hell' for a while, anything that keeps them calmer during inspection is worth considering. My hive from hell became sweeties, after 2 requeens.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Someone told me yesterday that warm way can be useful if you have a bad tempered hive. By not touching the frame by the entrance during inspection (it's not going to have any brood in it anyway) not all of the guard bees will be alerted to your intrusion. Having had a 'hive from hell' for a while, anything that keeps them calmer during inspection is worth considering. My hive from hell became sweeties, after 2 requeens.

If you have a bad tempered colony all the bees come out as soon as you pop the lid