Vicious bees

[Popparand]

One of my colonies was pretty aggressive last autumn and carried on trying to ding me for a while even after the hive was closed up. It was a swarm I collected on 20 May 2020 without any trouble and gave 28lb of honey in August. It overwintered with a super under the brood box and is still heavy. First inspection this year the bees "boiled" out of the hive (I now know what that means) and went for me like the proverbial. They are truly vicious! Both boxes were full of bees and the inspection board covered in cell cappings. On the plus side it is a strong colony and should yield a good crop this year. On the negative, they are borderline unmanageable. The options are:

1. Try to find the queen and kill her. I am not very good at finding queens and do not fancy spending an hour or more looking for this one, while under attack. Even then, if the workers rear a new queen from an emergency queen cell I may still have the same problem.
2. The super is now on top so they have plenty of space. Put up with them and hope they calm down when the weather warms up.
3. Strain the bees through a queen excluder on top of another colony (another swarm?) Bit tricky with brood and a half
4. Kill the lot with petrol. Not my preference
5. Con the bees with an artificial supersedure. Insert a queen cell from a calm colony, wrapped in foil with only the tip open. Does this work?

Any other ideas gratefully received!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

1. Try to find the queen and kill her. I am not very good at finding queens and do not fancy spending an hour or more looking for this one, while under attack. Even then, if the workers rear a new queen from an emergency queen cell I may still have the same problem.

I'd wait for the proper spring and better weather before assessing their temperament, but if they are truly vicious then requeening with a queen from a known calmer strain (not just killing the old one) is the only solution, so you first have to wait for this year's queens to get on the market.
to make it a bit easier to find the old queen, move the whole hive a few yards away, leaving an empty box in its place. wait a few hours so that then all the flying bees (usually the nastier ones) will have left the hive and then returned to the old location. It will then be a lot easier to find the old queen and introduce her to the fence post then introduce the new queen taking all the precautions in doing so. Then put the hive back in its old position.
You cold even start the new queen off in a nuc, wait until she's on her own brood with her own workers then do the deed on the old queen and unite.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Defensiveness, though annoying to the beek, may correlate to resistance.

They may also be penguins I doubt either though
I've yet to see evidence of any connection between mite 'resistance' and aggression.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Woa, Wait a cottn' pick'n minute here. Please check the mite count before you do anything! Defensiveness, though annoying to the beek, may correlate to resistance.

You may have the resistant stock, unawares!

Can you explain this for me pls?

 

[Erichalfbee]

One of my colonies was pretty aggressive last autumn and carried on trying to ding me for a while even after the hive was closed up. It was a swarm I collected on 20 May 2020 without any trouble and gave 28lb of honey in August. It overwintered with a super under the brood box and is still heavy. First inspection this year the bees "boiled" out of the hive

We are a small island heavily populated. You cannot keep vicious bees. (This is for Earthboy)

Popparand you’ve given them a chance. You know how dangerous nasty bees can be. I’d requeen by making a nuc up with a nice queen, as JBM has suggested

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I do smell something rank

 

[Curly green finger's]

I do smell something rank

You don't hold back do you.

 

[jeff33]

I have previously done as JBM suggests and introduce a mated queen in the box with all the brood and non flyers or united with a nuc. In the new box with flyers I had put a marked frame of bias to keep them happy (ish) and 10 days after went in and removed that frame. I then re-united with the other half which by now had fully accepted the queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The bell may be tolling for someone
Clod bee or not

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have previously done as JBM suggests and introduce a mated queen in the box with all the brood and non flyers or united with a nuc. In the new box with flyers I had put a marked frame of bias to keep them happy (ish) and 10 days after went in and removed that frame. I then re-united with the other half which by now had fully accepted the queen.

Sounds a plan.

 

[GuyNir]

Would be better if you take action before any drones are produced, as otherwise you risk spreading the nasty genetics around.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

He can easily post them to him after he's done the box switch

 

[Gilberdyke John]

One of my colonies was pretty aggressive last autumn and carried on trying to ding me for a while even after the hive was closed up. It was a swarm I collected on 20 May 2020 without any trouble and gave 28lb of honey in August. It overwintered with a super under the brood box and is still heavy. First inspection this year the bees "boiled" out of the hive (I now know what that means) and went for me like the proverbial. They are truly vicious! Both boxes were full of bees and the inspection board covered in cell cappings. On the plus side it is a strong colony and should yield a good crop this year. On the negative, they are borderline unmanageable. The options are:

1. Try to find the queen and kill her. I am not very good at finding queens and do not fancy spending an hour or more looking for this one, while under attack. Even then, if the workers rear a new queen from an emergency queen cell I may still have the same problem.
2. The super is now on top so they have plenty of space. Put up with them and hope they calm down when the weather warms up.
3. Strain the bees through a queen excluder on top of another colony (another swarm?) Bit tricky with brood and a half
4. Kill the lot with petrol. Not my preference
5. Con the bees with an artificial supersedure. Insert a queen cell from a calm colony, wrapped in foil with only the tip open. Does this work?

Any other ideas gratefully received!

I see from your description you joined the forum a few years ago and have five hives. Is this your first encounter with nasty bees? Do you have anyone you could turn to to help find and despatch the problem queen if required?
I'd wait a little while to see if warmer weather and better forage availability improves the colony temper then if the problem persists regicide is warranted. If your other colonies are good you might use one of them as a source of genetic material for a better queen or it might be worth considering a bought in queen. Abelo have sold me a productive lady in the past but others may have sources to suggest

 

[BigAshW]

If you are really struggling to find the queen you could make up temporary shaker box.

Put an empty box with an excluder on top and then a second box on top. Then shake all the bes down. The queen should then be trapped above the excluder and easier to find.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

"hope they calm down when the weather warms up". This not an option.

My suggestion:-
It will be 2 months before the bees improve in any case with a new queen, so leaving them for a couple of weeks in hope is not sensible in my view as you are delaying the pain. Firstly bleed off the flyers to another colony, lets call it A, by moving the 'defensive' colony first to strengthen colony A. By moving the defensive colony next to colony B, you can now look for the queen without the more aggressive flyers, remove her and unite to colony B with newspaper. After 3 weeks, colony A will have regained it's usual composure and will have benefitted from the flyers from the defensive lot. You will have defensive bees in colony B for a couple of months - so until the beginning of June.

If you want defensive bees for longer than that, then you could hope for a miracle or wait until you get a new queen from somewhere but by that time the colony will be bigger and be less happy about accepting a travelled queen - so you would need to make a nuc up first which delays the process by a further time and you'll finish up with a colony that's horrible all season and with it's drones being produces as well. (Potentially).

 

[madasafish]

"hope they calm down when the weather warms up". This not an option.

My suggestion:-
It will be 2 months before the bees improve in any case with a new queen, so leaving them for a couple of weeks in hope is not sensible in my view as you are delaying the pain. Firstly bleed off the flyers to another colony, lets call it A, by moving the 'defensive' colony first to strengthen colony A. By moving the defensive colony next to colony B, you can now look for the queen without the more aggressive flyers, remove her and unite to colony B with newspaper. After 3 weeks, colony A will have regained it's usual composure and will have benefitted from the flyers from the defensive lot. You will have defensive bees in colony B for a couple of months - so until the beginning of June.

If you want defensive bees for longer than that, then you could hope for a miracle or wait until you get a new queen from somewhere but by that time the colony will be bigger and be less happy about accepting a travelled queen - so you would need to make a nuc up first which delays the process by a further time and you'll finish up with a colony that's horrible all season and with it's drones being produces as well. (Potentially).

Easily solved by moving the hive away and losing most of the flying bees - they will go into other colonies. Leave two -three days and then requeen: with far fewer older bees, the remaining nurse bees are more likely to accept a new Q..

(Been there done it)

 

[B+.]

Woa, Wait a cottn' pick'n minute here. Please check the mite count before you do anything! Defensiveness, though annoying to the beek, may correlate to resistance.

You may have the resistant stock, unawares!

Are you saying that varroa resistant bees are defensive? I don't find that at all.

 

[B+.]

AHB?

No. You said mite, not beetle.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No. You said mite, not beetle.

Doesn’t Dee Lusby maintain that her mad bees are mite resistant?

 

[B+.]

I did point out how AHB behaves like A. Cerana, the original host of v. mites, in that they both recognize mites and known to pick mites from the thorax of others. Also, AHB's tend to chase SHB's, known to have arrived here in 1991 from sub-Shara region. Have not yet heard how SHB's have devastated African bees there. Trying not to be vituperative.

In post #3, you seemed to be suggesting that mite count correlated to aggression. If this is not the case, please clarify/retract. Otherwise, please supply some evidence. I do not see any aggression in my test colonies at all.