Very high varroah load

[JohnRoss]

I got a full inspection of all hives done at the weekend and although they are all looking strong at the moment full of brood at all stages and starting to fill supers there is a very high varroah load. I treated with Oxcalic in January by trickling but this year it doesn't seem to have really done the trick, I have noticed. DWV in most hives and very high mite drop, mits hanging off many bees and also something that I have never witnessed before, that is mites walking around the face of the brood frames. walking around and heading into cells. That aside the colonies are in great shape. I dont think I have ever had as many hives come through the winter so strong before. They are all bursting with bees.

What treatment would people recommend at this time of year bearing in mind that honey is starting to come in and I added second supers to some hives this week.

 

[pargyle]

What treatment would people recommend at this time of year bearing in mind that honey is starting to come in and I added second supers to some hives this week.

Oxalic by sublimation - no brainer - three treatments 5 days apart. Should knock the mite load back ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oxalic by sublimation - no brainer - three treatments 5 days apart. Should knock the mite load back ...

Yes and now!
Good luck

 

[JohnRoss]

Excuse the ignorance nut what does that involve? is that vapourisation?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, you need a vapouriser.
Alternatively you could use Apivar on prescription here in UK but I don't know about Ireland

 

[Insy]

Take off any supers with honey in ready or not off the hive before you do these treatments, last thing you want is contaminated honey being processed later in season.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Take off any supers with honey in ready or not off the hive before you do these treatments, last thing you want is contaminated honey being processed later in season.

OK.......I'll put my tin hat on
Oxalic acid is a normal constituent of honey. In an emergency (which this certainly is) I would vape with supers on. I certainly wouldn't be concerned about eating the honey myself.
If John is sublimating then he definitely needs three treatments five days apart if not a fourth.Bit of a faff taking those supers off and on and off and on

 

[Beefriendly]

I'll share your tin hat Erichalfbee....whislt waiting for vaporizer to arrive in post (or wherever) give them a liberal dusting of icing sugar. It's not effective for long term treatment but will drop a load of phoretic mites very quickly.

 

[pargyle]

I'll share your tin hat Erichalfbee....whislt waiting for vaporizer to arrive in post (or wherever) give them a liberal dusting of icing sugar. It's not effective for long term treatment but will drop a load of phoretic mites very quickly.

Yes .. waste of time for any real treatment of mites but applied with a 'puffer' between the frames you will see a real drop on the board with a load that high. But make sure you grease the board or they will climb back up ! If it only knocks down 10% it's better than doing nothing. Beg, buy or borrow a vapouriser as soon as you can ... there seems to be a trend with some bees seeming to attract high varroa loads and others not so much ... you have a serious load in that hive.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

OK.......I'll put my tin hat on
Oxalic acid is a normal constituent of honey. In an emergency (which this certainly is) I would vape with supers on. I certainly wouldn't be concerned about eating the honey myself.
If John is sublimating then he definitely needs three treatments five days apart if not a fourth.Bit of a faff taking those supers off and on and off and on

I'll go along with that but if the OP is still concerned, he could install a clearer board below the honey supers an hour or two before treatment - most of the bees will evacuate the supers and get some OA on them and the little bit of Oxalic Acid that gets up near the honey should not cause any problems.

CVB

 

[Plenty of honey]

I got a full inspection of all hives done at the weekend and although they are all looking strong at the moment full of brood at all stages and starting to fill supers there is a very high Varroa load. I treated with Oxcalic in January by trickling but this year it doesn't seem to have really done the trick, I have noticed. DWV in most hives and very high mite drop, mits hanging off many bees and also something that I have never witnessed before, that is mites walking around the face of the brood frames. walking around and heading into cells. That aside the colonies are in great shape. I dont think I have ever had as many hives come through the winter so strong before. They are all bursting with bees.

What treatment would people recommend at this time of year bearing in mind that honey is starting to come in and I added second supers to some hives this week.

Interesting this varroa Control. I was only talking about this today with a fellow beekeeper. I would put money on your mite numbers were low or of an acceptable level earlier in the year but someone nearby had a failing hive (or hives) that have jumped ship and rebolstered your numbers.
Do you have other beekeepers around you?
VOA all the way, i agree.

 

[Millet]

Dear lord.. lol can i join in and offer little help yet again.. put a string of bangers (pigeon scarers) that game keepers use inside the hive, that will fettle everything.
Before that though Gassing Oxcalic will help your mite problem ten fold..

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would put money on your mite numbers were low or of an acceptable level earlier in the year but someone nearby had a failing hive (or hives) that have jumped ship and rebolstered your numbers.
Do you have other beekeepers around you?

Yes, I think it's an i increasing problem.
Especially with all the numbers of apiaries increasing

 

[sean-a]

Is the OA ok with unsealed brood?
Don't want to kill off the next generation.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes, I think it's an i increasing problem.
Especially with all the numbers of apiaries increasing

And the upsurge of leavitalone beekeepers

 

[Erichalfbee]

And the upsurge of leavitalone beekeepers

Mike Palmers explanation for his historical low levels increasing

 

[Plenty of honey]

Mike Palmers explanation for his historical low levels increasing

Yes Mike absolutely Nailed it in his Interview.
Whether you treat or not is obviously down to your own personal choice however, If you've never kept bees zero treatment(always previously treated) and subject them to high mite levels its becoming evident that they wont survive well, more like just exist at best. On the flip side, i am hearing all the time about colonies that havent been treated for years, are apparently "performing fine". The question is, what is "performing fine"?
Like Mike says, Non treatment group seem to be economical with the truth about their numbers in the spring.

At present I couldn't keep bees without Mite control. Luckily i dont have many beekeepers near many of my apiaries so once i get my numbers dow, they usually remain acceptable (whatever that is).
I was referring to Mark (Madamazza) in Portugal, in my previous post. He's had a real struggle with his bees becoming reinfected and i know he's been meticulous with his treatments. His neighbouring beekeepers just dont treat correctly, if at all.
He can tell you more, but this is a problem thats should be tackled by all beekeepers, non treatment or treatment, because it affects all!

 

[enrico]

My turn, in the circumstances I would use maqs, won't harm the honey, will do the job in a week and is easy and effective.
E

 

[pargyle]

......If you've never kept bees zero treatment(always previously treated) and subject them to high mite levels its becoming evident that they wont survive well, more like just exist at best. On the flip side, i am hearing all the time about colonies that havent been treated for years, are apparently "performing fine". The question is, what is "performing fine"?
Like Mike says, Non treatment group seem to be economical with the truth about their numbers in the spring.

Well ... I would agree with some of this ... non-treatment - bees that have been used to a regime of treatment for varroa may not respond well to being left to their own devices to cope. I think we weaken bees by treatment with varroacides - the only treatment I would use is OA by sublimation and then only if they need it.

However, my bees came from a local swarm and have never been treated - but - I keep a very close eye on how they are doing. I don't get any brood disease, I don't have DWV or Nosema - never have - but there are varying levels of mites in the colonies - but I've not lost a colony yet (well - that's not strictly true - I have one that appears to be currently queenless and I combined a smaller colony at the end of last season to give them a better chance) - but none that I would attribute to varroa.

They produce a honey crop that's pretty much in line with other beekeepers in my area.

Do I consider that my bees are a hindrance to other beekeepers in my area ? - far from it - I think my bees are survivors and they are adding to the gene pool in the area with the drones the colonies produce (and being foundationless they do produce a LOT of drones !). I'm not a letalone - leaveitalone - or whatever derogatory term some like to apply - I just think that nature will either eventually strike a balance or they will die out - Darwin rules.

I was on a farm lambing last weekend and the farmer there expressed the opinion that the sheep he rears for meat production would not survive without human intervention - on a whole raft of levels on a daily basis. Yet, I also know a farmer in Cumbria whose sheep probably only see him once a week and even then intervention is almost non-existent ... his sheep survive in the harshest of climates, over winter - fed if there is heavy snow, they lamb in the fields on their own, they have adjusted and are independent - and frankly they produce the best tasting lamb on the planet !

So ... who has got it right ? It might take a few generations but the future of beekeeping has to be a return to less chemical interference ... IMO. Tin hat on ...

 

[fatshark]

Interesting this varroa Control. I was only talking about this today with a fellow beekeeper. I would put money on your mite numbers were low or of an acceptable level earlier in the year but someone nearby had a failing hive (or hives) that have jumped ship and rebolstered your numbers.
Do you have other beekeepers around you?
VOA all the way, i agree.

Evidence indicates that early season drifting and re-infestation is much less than late season or when there's a dearth of nectar. Whilst I certainly agree that locally infested hives can be a source of mites*, I'd be surprised if they'd all arrived this early in the season.

* I moved from a BeeBase 240+ apiaries to 26 apiaries in 10km and saw a huge difference in the ease of mite control ...