Very damp hive

[dpearce4]

opened up one of my hives today (i know, i know) done to see if needed fondant. found the crown board very wet on both sides, lots of mold on the frames and on the solid floor. I saw the queen so know its queen right but no brood, i expect this is because of it being so damp.

what is the best way to get rid of the damp, i have a spare brood box i could place under the whole hive(under the floor) to raise it up, part of my thinking for this is so it has more sunlight on it for more of the day, my second hive is on 2 brood box and has lots of brood at all stages in it (5 frames). is it worth putting a crown board that has a feed hole on it open so it gets an air flow moving through it or should i do the BBKA idea of matchsticks to let a little airflow through. I also have the frames going across the front of the hive is it worth turning them through 90dregees to help with airflow.

 

[Finman]

.
Reason to dampness is that moisture has been condensated to the cover.

Change the cover to dry one. Put a new insulating board instead. It does not pay much.

Wind sometimes throw the water cover off and inner cover is sometimes like soaked into water. It means nothing. I put a new cover and dry up the old one.

One year my water cover was off the whole winter, about 4 months. The inner cover was totally blue by mold. Bees seemed clearly sick, but soon they recovered when I changed the cover.

Forget the feeding hole. It only leaks the heat out.

Then, if you have mesh floor, close it. Keep only normal Spring entrance open. 15cm x 1 cm.

Bees produce the heat. Warming the outer air drops the relative moisture and that will dry up the interior. When bees are now alive, nothing will kil then since now. Thing become only better.

 

[Finman]

what is the best way to get rid of the damp, i have a spare brood box.

If I were you, I would only put a dry inner cover to the hive and insulation on it. Then I would stuck heat leaks that it is easier to colony to keep hive warm.


If we have in Finland moist houses we add heat, not ventilation. To heat and add ventilation, it only adds Global Warming.

 

[dpearce4]

If I were you, I would only put a dry inner cover to the hive and insulation on it. Then I would stuck heat leaks that it is easier to colony to keep hive warm.


If we have in Finland moist houses we add heat, not ventilation. To heat and add ventilation, it only adds Global Warming.

you put it so well finman. i am of you.

 

[region2]

The warmer the air the more moisture it can hold - if you then have a cold spot it will condense causing wet patches - the solution I preach is to keep the air at a constant temp and minimise the moisture levels. That's what trickle vents do in your windows so keep them open...

Back to the OP - have you got solid or O/M floors?

R2

 

[itma]

If you ever have to dry out after a flood or even a burst pipe, you'll need ventilation to carry the moisture away, after the heat has turned it into vapour ...

... found the crown board very wet on both sides, lots of mold on the frames and on the solid floor. ...

... is it worth putting a crown board that has a feed hole on it open so it gets an air flow moving through it ...

A mesh floor is the obvious answer, but in the interim perhaps you might try RAB's trick of matchsticks (or equivalent) between the BB and floor?
ADDED: - And if you have anything you can use as a dry crownboard, I'd suggest sticking it in while the soaked one dries out (better to do that in the house or garage rather than the hive, methinks).


My impression is that in the British climate a little bit of top ventilation (air through flow) is needed if you use a solid floor.
The famous matchsticks are part of the old-style solid floor technique.
With OMF, the top can be completely closed off and insulated. But that seems to be only with OMF ...

 

[dpearce4]

solid floor with a reduced entrance and mouse guard on to.

 

[Finman]

.
Guys out there in South. You are really mad!!!!!!!!!!!

The warmer the air the more moisture it can hold -
R2

region, You understand this physical law totally controversy as you should.

Bees generate the heat inside . They try to keep it constant because they rear brood. Brood temp is 36C. What ever you do, brood temp is 36C.

Bees generate the moist. Now do you want that dew point is inside the hive or outside the hive?
As long as the air can hold the moisture, it does not condensate. But it the walls are cold, the air in pherifheria drops and moisture condensates on cold surfaces. That keeps surfaces moist.

Ventilation cools the hive box and makes the interior surfaces colder. The colder,k the more condensation.

Of course, the home and the hive needs a proper ventilation.

Region, do you have mesh floor in you home? Which has bigger ventilation hole, you home of your hive? Do you have in your home hive floor size ventilation hole somehere in these weathers?



A human generates 60 W heat and a hive generates 3-5W. Why a hive needs ten fold ventilation hole even if hive use only 10% oxygen out of human?.

 

[itma]

solid floor with a reduced entrance and mouse guard on to.

You'd get more (drying) airflow without the entrance reducer.
Is it needed to prevent robbing of this hive?

 

[VEG]

change to an open mesh floor

 

[Finman]

My impression is that in the British climate a little bit of top ventilation (air through flow) is needed if you use a solid floor. ...

Yes, upper entrance is good even here but now one ventilate in winter via cover edges. Are you not able to make a ventilation hole in front wall?


Guys are mad. When we talk about upper entrance, most of guys say that it makes "chimney effect". The hole diameter is 1,5 cm. Then you put match sticks and no talk about "chimney effect"

YOu know that even in Finland night is the coldest part of day. Every night air moisture goes to 100% or to 90%

What is the difference with your "climate" and our "climate".

Out door moisture is about 50% when sun shines. Then in boath country it rises to 100%

And what was the difference??????

When it rains, it rains and out moisture is 100%.

.
Come out from your tiny isle and see that there are same life outside your world..

 

[Finman]

change to an open mesh floor

What to say . Basic reason is uninsulated inner cover and direct condensation on it.

Last talking was condensation between two insulation boads and the reason was feeding hole what leaked the warm air out and condensated onto cold insulation boad surface.

 

[itma]

What to say . Basic reason is uninsulated inner cover and direct condensation on it.
...

This hive is reported to have no top ventilation (no-hole crownboard), and a solid floor and a reduced entrance.
That is a recipe for condensation and holding dampness.
Even with insulation, there would still be condensation (more on the walls) and the water still could not escape.

All the time that the bees generate heat for themselves, they also produce water vapour, in direct proportion to the heat .

That vapour has to be allowed to escape from the hive, otherwise it builds up and this situation is the result.
An OMF does the job of allowing excess moisture to escape.
Without that, some other form of ventilation is needed.


But for this hive, drying it out is now the priority.
I've suggested swapping the crownboard for a dry one (ideally with a hole or two), removing the entrance reducer and raising the BB (less than a bee space) off the floor.
Is that reasonable? What else is suggested?

The weather forecast for the next few days has night-time minimum of about 6C (which is probably a bit warmer than Finland!)

Its often been said that its damp, not cold, that kills bees.
I really don't like the sound of mould on the frames.

 

[tonybloke]

doug, put a 1" block under the back of the hive floor, this will let excess water run out of the door.

 

[dpearce4]

doug, put a 1" block under the back of the hive floor, this will let excess water run out of the door.

Did this at the beginning of winter so as to put a very slight slope from back to front for the winter so no standing water.

change to an open mesh floor

Cant do this dont have a spare one.

what i have done as a temp measure is change the crown board for another (still no hole) and replaced the roof with a nice dry one.

what i am going to do if the weather is condusive next weekend is to move the hive out the way, place a dry floor (solid, sorry guys all i have) put the brood box back on this and then change the crown board again for another dry one, hopefully this will sort it out until i can move the hive upto where its going in the spring.

 

[user 6228]

.
Guys out there in South. You are really mad!!!!!!!!!!!



region, You understand this physical law totally controversy as you should.

Bees generate the heat inside . They try to keep it constant because they rear brood. Brood temp is 36C. What ever you do, brood temp is 36C.

Bees generate the moist. Now do you want that dew point is inside the hive or outside the hive?
As long as the air can hold the moisture, it does not condensate. But it the walls are cold, the air in pherifheria drops and moisture condensates on cold surfaces. That keeps surfaces moist.

Ventilation cools the hive box and makes the interior surfaces colder. The colder,k the more condensation.

Of course, the home and the hive needs a proper ventilation.

Region, do you have mesh floor in you home? Which has bigger ventilation hole, you home of your hive? Do you have in your home hive floor size ventilation hole somehere in these weathers?



A human generates 60 W heat and a hive generates 3-5W. Why a hive needs ten fold ventilation hole even if hive use only 10% oxygen out of human?.

finman is correct here (mostly i would argue the figures on the watts, but then bees are variable output heaters)

Condensation should be viewed as water and heat lost to the colony.

Beyond these two losses, condensation only a problem if it encourages mold growth or drips directly on the bees.

A well insulated roof and upper sides is the first step.

Reduction in cold air flow into the hive itself is the second step. if the bees themselves are a guide the total open cross section should not exceed 30 sq cms (unless we want to jump into more esoteric airflow calculations), for both floor and entrance.

Insulation of the floor the third step...

its the same engineering of any enclosed space containing objects which off heat and water vapour but need to temperature regulate the space or part of it.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Back to the OP - have you got solid or O/M floors?
R2

The answer is in the OP.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15919

 

[tonybloke]

.
Guys out there in South. You are really mad!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course, the home and the hive needs a proper ventilation.

Region, do you have mesh floor in you home? Which has bigger ventilation hole, you home of your hive? Do you have in your home hive floor size ventilation hole somehere in these weathers?

hey Finman, we have a 9" x 9" ventilation hole in the front wall of our living room, nothing wrong with a bit of ventilation to provide fresh air for the fire

 

[Poly Hive]

Make yourself a mesh floor, it shouldn't take much longer than 20 mins to do.

Find your local timber yard and get them to cut the wood for you then assemble with some mesh and while at it make two and start converting the rest of them.

PH

 

[dpearce4]

I know they can do the wood for it but where do i get the mesh from PH? i would give it a go no problem if i can find the mesh at the right price.