Varroa Treatment - Super Dilemma

[BeeJayBee]

A single standard national brood box is not big enough to accommodate enough stores for a full colony to get through winter.

A lot of beekeepers successfully overwinter their bees in a single national super.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

A single standard national brood box is not big enough to accommodate enough stores for a full colony to get through winter. I use a super under to create more space.

A lot of beekeepers successfully overwinter their bees in a single national super.

Is this worth a member poll? It seems an important question.

I, for one, have always thought a national brood box to be too much of a risk to overwinter without a super (or nadir) of stores (without queen extractor, of course). It was one of the main factors behind my decision to opt for 14 x 12 brood boxes.

I'd do it myself, if I could be bothered to work out how to construct a poll!

Dusty.

 

[Finman]

.
How do you over Winter if you have not bees in the box?

 

[Madge]

... Apiguard ... takes the queen out of lay for far longer than MAQS... plus interupts giving winter feed.

Sorry to return to an early answer but, Masterbk, I'm curious to know how Apiguard interrupts winter feeding.

 

[user 6228]

A single standard national brood box is not big enough to accommodate enough stores for a full colony to get through winter. I use a super under to create more space.

it depends on the winter, the hive construction, and size of colony

 

[Heather]

Been absent .. don't know if asked.. and too busy to plough through.. Apologies for haste..
Have you checked for varroa before considering treatment late August?

Every hive of mine is showing either no drop, or max 4 in a week of inspection board in.. and no ants removing.
I will only treat in Dec/Jan if deemed necessary. Hopefully helps brood increase for winter.
How is everyone else finding varroa presence?? never seen so few. Are bees learning??

 

[masterBK]

M C In answer to your question. The recommendation from Vita is not to apply Apiguard whilst feeding in case the bees spend all their time taking the feed and not bothering to clean out the Apiguard gel. This year Varroa numbers seem higher than previous year and many hives are also short of stores (hence the warning from Bee unit) so you have a choice. Do you feed first and then apply apiguard or apply apiguard and 14 days later feed.

 

[alldigging]

I'd do it myself, if I could be bothered to work out how to construct a poll!

Dusty.

The poll is easy to set up. Finding the right options to have as possible answers is the hard bit.

Do you overwinter you bees
- single national brood box
- national brood and super over
- national brood and super under

then do you repeat for the non-national sizes
and include a with or without matchsticks
and a with or without OMF
and a with or without top insulation
etc.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I, for one, have always thought a national brood box to be too much of a risk to overwinter without a super (or nadir) of stores (without queen extractor, of course). It was one of the main factors behind my decision to opt for 14 x 12 brood boxes.

Two apologies - firstly for continuing to stray a bit from OP and secondly for the mistake in my recent post. I somehow edited the wrong word(s) in/out. It should have read, "in a single national brood box" I wouldn't have noticed if Dusty hadn't quoted it.

I don't use standard nationals either (mine are either Jumbo Lang/Dadant or standard Langstroth) but virtually all of the more senior/older beekeepers in the association - which is in the South - use standard nationals and, almost without exception, they successfully overwinter colonies in just the brood box. So I'm using their experience as an example rather than my own.

Thanks to Derek, some of them used home-made hive cosies last year and almost all of those reckoned it meant the bees used less stores (syrup), so they're going to be a bit more careful about feeding this autumn because they don't want their spring honey adulterated with syrup.

Beekeeper's opinions always differ, but mostly end up with the same result.

There's this from Dave Cushman

I myself stopped feeding for winter as a matter of routine in the late 1980s and have sometimes left a partially empty shallow super to receive any ivy honey and provide a reserve that the bees can use or ignore according to their needs. I commonly winter in only one National sized brood box, and providing they store 15 or so kilos of honey I will not feed further.​

and on the same page

I dislike the advice given that you need "X" kg of stores per colony to winter them. This doesn't take into account the type of bee, the size of the colony, the length of the winter or the part of the country. ..... Apart from the odd occasion when I have needed to do it, I haven't left a super of honey. There is no reason for this apart from the fact I can sell all the honey I can produce 5 times over. I think for the amateur beekeeper there is a lot to be said for it. I used to advise taking the queen excluder out to prevent the bees going through the excluder and leaving the queen behind, but I spoke to a very good beekeeper of over 30 years experience with 50 colonies who winters on a super, leaving the excluder in and he has never lost a queen.​

 

[Madge]

M C In answer to your question ...

Thanks, MasterBK.
Kitta

 

[itma]

... virtually all of the more senior/older beekeepers in the association - which is in the South - use standard nationals and, almost without exception, they successfully overwinter colonies in just the brood box. ... [/INDENT][/I]

But for a beginner, having extra space available beneath does provide a worthwhile margin of safety, so that things never need to be finely judged.

The OP would appear to be heading for his winter as a beekeeper.

Judging the behaviour and needs of your particular bees, requires prior experience - and a 'stable' Q-rearing regime.

Roger Patterson believes in selecting for bees that can successfully overwinter in a single National brood.
However advising Darwinian selection for the single-colony beginner is a bit harsh.

 

[itma]

...

Beekeeper's opinions always differ, but mostly end up with the same result.

There's this from Dave Cushman

I myself stopped feeding for winter as a matter of routine in the late 1980s and have sometimes left a partially empty shallow super to receive any ivy honey and provide a reserve that the bees can use or ignore according to their needs. I commonly winter in only one National sized brood box, and providing they store 15 or so kilos of honey I will not feed further.​

and on the same page

I dislike the advice given that you need "X" kg of stores per colony to winter them. This doesn't take into account the type of bee, the size of the colony, the length of the winter or the part of the country. ..... Apart from the odd occasion when I have needed to do it, I haven't left a super of honey. There is no reason for this apart from the fact I can sell all the honey I can produce 5 times over. I think for the amateur beekeeper there is a lot to be said for it. I used to advise taking the queen excluder out to prevent the bees going through the excluder and leaving the queen behind, but I spoke to a very good beekeeper of over 30 years experience with 50 colonies who winters on a super, leaving the excluder in and he has never lost a queen.​

The two bits of advice on the same page are from DIFFERENT beekeepers - Cushman and Patterson.

Different beekeepers' advice will frequently differ ...

 

[BeeJayBee]

The two bits of advice on the same page are from DIFFERENT beekeepers - Cushman and Patterson.

Which is why I quoted them both.