Varroa feed on bees’ fat bodies

[pargyle]

The real difficulty is to find ways to encourage beekeepers to take the problem seriously. The greatest difficulty will be in getting EVERY beekeeper to take the problem seriously. Even if most beekeepers take the problem seriously, it only takes a few non-conformers to enable there to be reservoirs of varroa infection.
Perhaps one method might be for there to be compulsory registration of beekeepers, as there is in Victoria, Australia where I live. But then, I think I have seen indications on this forum that there are many who might disagree with this approach.

Only because those who are likely to register are the ones who are more likely to be responsible beekeepers - let alone beekeepers will inevitable remain under the radar. Plus, there is no legitimate infrastructure to maintain and monitor a register of beekeepers. We have Beebase now but it's a voluntary registration.

I'm treatment free but I am a very responsible non-treater and anything that made treatment of your bees with anything compulsory I would find an imposition. It's a slippery slope in my estimation (and yes - I am registered on Beebase).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if treatment is to be worthwhile as a trade-off for the damage it might do to the bees, what is really needed is a treatment which attacks the varroa at the point when they enter the cell

But.
OA does no harm to the bees (proven fact) and it attacks the varroa before it enters the brood cell, or more importantly, before the cell is sealed.
There is plenty of peer reviewed evidence out there, so no need for anyone to invent an issue when there isn't one

 

[charlievictorbravo]

But.
OA does no harm to the bees (proven fact) and it attacks the varroa before it enters the brood cell, or more importantly, before the cell is sealed.
There is plenty of peer reviewed evidence out there, so no need for anyone to invent an issue when there isn't one

Speaking of peer-reviewed evidence, JBM, have you seen anything written, based on evidence, of how Oxalic Acid actually kills Varroa mites? The assumption that I have repeated has always been that the acid attacks the feet and mouth parts of the mite (i.e. the soft tissue). Are the mites poisoned, burned to death or asphyxiated. Is the OA ingested, inhaled or absorbed? As Dr Sam discovered, there's a need to do some basic research.

CVB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Speaking of peer-reviewed evidence, JBM, have you seen anything written, based on evidence, of how Oxalic Acid actually kills Varroa mites? The assumption that I have repeated has always been that the acid attacks the feet and mouth parts of the mite (i.e. the soft tissue). Are the mites poisoned, burned to death or asphyxiated. Is the OA ingested, inhaled or absorbed? As Dr Sam discovered, there's a need to do some basic research.

CVB

To be honest, never really looked although I do recall some paper somewhere mentioning it. OA kills mites, does not harm bees. I'm happy with that.
I take pills every day, will for the rest of my life, I don't spend too much time reading papers on how they work (that just leaves to paranoia )
Like you I've followed the assumption that it burns the mouths and feet.

 

[bingevader]

But.
OA does no harm to the bees (proven fact) and it attacks the varroa before it enters the brood cell, or more importantly, before the cell is sealed.
There is plenty of peer reviewed evidence out there, so no need for anyone to invent an issue when there isn't one

But.
Just for clarity, that's vaping, not trickling.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But.
Just for clarity, that's vaping, not trickling.

yep, sorry, forgot to mention that as trickling is something I haven't subjected my bees to for nearly a decade
(just standing by now from the usual grumblings from the lair of our own skywegian snow fairy )

 

[seillean mil]

So, it's a proven fact? that oxalic acid does no harm to bees, but we don't know how it kills mites. I am dubious that the one fact can be proven without the other matter being properly understood.
I have read scientific studies which indicate that in laboratory conditions, oxalic acid can reduce the lifespan of bees, change the pH in their digestive system and dehydrate their bodies. Is that harmful?
I am aware that in practise, the widespread use of oxalic has shown that its benefits make it a very effective treatment for Varroa destructor. But I'm not reassured by anecdotal statements that it is a safe chemical to apply to my bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have read scientific studies which indicate that in laboratory conditions, oxalic acid can reduce the lifespan of bees, change the pH in their digestive system and dehydrate their bodies.

We are talking sublimated OA (not trickled in syrup - which is known to have a harmful effect to bees).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But I'm not reassured by anecdotal statements that it is a safe chemical to apply to my bees.

Don't use it then - leave them die by another method of your choice

 

[Murox]

So, it's a proven fact? that oxalic acid does no harm to bees, but we don't know how it kills mites. I am dubious that the one fact can be proven without the other matter being properly understood.
I have read scientific studies which indicate that in laboratory conditions, oxalic acid can reduce the lifespan of bees, change the pH in their digestive system and dehydrate their bodies. Is that harmful?
I am aware that in practise, the widespread use of oxalic has shown that its benefits make it a very effective treatment for Varroa destructor. But I'm not reassured by anecdotal statements that it is a safe chemical to apply to my bees.

Is any chemical really safe? Doing nothing about varroa is not an option.

Amitraz is used worldwide under numerous generic names as an acaricide and insecticide; because of its widespread use Amitraz poisoning has emerged over the past decade. The important thing is to minimise the varroa burden/load in your hives, by whatever means you choose. I choose OA as it occurs naturally, sublimation works and is the most effective method when used as recommended/directed. This autumn I used Amitraz mainly due to the covid issue.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have been using sublimated oxalic acid as my sole varroa control since 2010. I have never lost a colony to Varroa and neither have I had a queen fail over winter. I have squashed a few though
I have had from 7 to 16 colonies at any one time so just a small sample

 

[bingevader]

Is any chemical really safe? Doing nothing about varroa is not an option.

I think Bayer and Syngenta might like your line of argument!
Doing nothing would be an option if there was the motivation to breed resistant bees.

 

[Murox]

I think Bayer and Syngenta might like your line of argument!
Doing nothing would be an option if there was the motivation to breed resistant bees.

But then we would have done something. In the meantime I will continue to sublimate OA, especially as it seems that varroa do not build resistance to it.

 

[gmonag]

I see where @understanding_bees is coming from; if treatment is to be worthwhile as a trade-off for the damage it might do to the bees, what is really needed is a treatment which attacks the varroa at the point when they enter the cell in preparation for egg-laying. That would be the most reliable, long-term solution. We can but dream.

That is what OA does.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

Trickle treating can have adverse effects on young larvae: A scientific note on the effect of oxalic acid on honey bee larvae

 

[Erichalfbee]

Trickle treating can have adverse effects on young larvae: A scientific note on the effect of oxalic acid on honey bee larvae

Thanks,
This is well known which is why you don't do it with brood present.
I don't think many people trickle any more.....do they?

 

[drex]

I usually vape , but for newbies I am helping I show them how to trickle, as it does not need a lot of kit, and it saves me carting a car battery to their hives. I demo the vape at my apiary.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I usually vape , but for newbies I am helping I show them how to trickle, as it does not need a lot of kit, and it saves me carting a car battery to their hives. I demo the vape at my apiary.

Use a car jump starter to power the vape

 

[Swarm]

I know quite a few beekeepers who use the trickle method, in fact I helped a mate treat his apiaries last year. Whatever vaping method used, varrox, sublimox, gas vap, none are as quick and simple as trickling.
There are people checking colonies for brood in November so the chestnut about cold syrup and opening crown boards seems a bit daft.
Then of course, there are the multiple journeys to and from the apiary, the examples of seven, eight, nine visits etc. I wouldn't even consider trying to convince a 'trickler' that vaping was a better method.

 

[drex]

Use a car jump starter to power the vape

I got a battery free , that they were recycling, from my local garage.
I think it is important to at least demo trickling to newbies.