Using an incubator for QC's

[DorsetB]

Evening all,

I borrowed an incubator this spring & summer to raise some extra chickens, and was thinking of buying one over the winter to do the same next year and also use it for my Queen cells.

Is there a favourite make/model people use?

Thanks for any help.

 

[susbees]

Brinsea octagon 20 though not used our new one yet (except for hen eggs). The old one had a wonky thermostat and melted the trial (small) batch. Maybe next year.

 

[Norton]

I made my own out of 9mm ply, Dow insulation and all the electronics. You could also use an old small fridge/freezer/minibar and adapt it accordingly.

 

[BKF Admin]

I have used an octagon 10 the last few years with great success.

 

[oliver90owner]

I made my own out of 9mm ply, Dow insulation and all the electronics. You could also use an old small fridge/freezer/minibar and adapt it accordingly.

Since when did you need an incubator! From most of your 'shirt-sleeve posts' it would seem you would need an air-con system, not a heated incubator!!

How big is yours and how many queen cells will it deal with at one time?

Regards, RAB

 

[Norton]

Hello,
Yes, most of my posts are shirt-sleeved, however don't be misled, it gets cold here as well, it rained for most of yesterday and last night, the present temperature is just 16 C, heavy overcast and light rain/drizzle - reminds me of somewhere else! When we have a heatwave, we have to put the A/C cooler on in the incubator room and put freezer packs in the incubator to keep the temperature down. It's quite a harsh climate and frosts in February and March can happen.

We use virgins, hatched in the incubator, when we go around checking the mating nucs. These always have had ripe queen cells placed in them, but these are sometimes rejected and they raise their own queen - we only want F1 queens, not F2.

The incubator takes about 200 cells at a time.

 

[jakethedog]

We use virgins, hatched in the incubator, when we go around checking the mating nucs. These always have had ripe queen cells placed in them, but these are sometimes rejected and they raise their own queen

so would I be right to understand that you use the incubator as a back up to maintain a stock of 'spares' to cover losses, while transfering cells from a finisher to a mating nuc is your primary method?

 

[Norton]

Correct!

 

[mbc]

An interesting thread at last ! Good input Norton
How many virgins do you hatch compared to cells put out ? i.e. what percentage of cells fail ? And what do you do with the spares ?

 

[Norton]

No fixed numbers really, sometimes get good takes on the cells, sometimes it is very low. Lots of variables affect the acceptance.
If we have extra virgins we can introduce them into nucs that have been queenless a week or more or put them in a mating nuc where there is already a virgin and a few days later split this mating nuc into 2 or even more divisions.

 

[mbc]

What type of mating nuc are you using that can be split into 2 or even more ?

 

[Norton]

Not apideas. My own design min nucs with 6 frames and 4 frame full depth Langstroths. We can take out half the frames and make a new nuc either with the newly laying queen or the caged virgin. Often when the caged virgin is released she is laying within 100 hours of release!

 

[mbc]

I envy you your mating conditions, I seldom check my nucs until 3 weeks after the virgins hatched, and it can take even longer for the queens to get mated and start laying. It makes the uncertainty of waiting quite expensive as the bees in a nuc over a month from setting it up tend to be a waste of time, its probably better to shake them out and start again rather than persevering with them and introducing new cells.

 

[Norton]

Try not to envy me too much. What about when it hits 45 C (in the shade) and there is widespread meltdown. Open the hive at midday in the direct sun and the exposed bees die in front of you!

I let the queens lay for about a month before collecting them for sale.

Yes, if the bees do not take a cell and reject the second attempt it is best to shake them out and start all over again with fresh worker bees as they will probably start parthenogenesis.

 

[mbc]

Swing and roudabouts i suppose.
At the risk of hijacking the thread, do you see much variation in the acceptance of virgins hatched in the incubator and those hatched from cells in the nuc ? or any noticable difference in the eventual queens e.g. supercedure rates or laying rate

 

[jakethedog]

while i don't want to see this thread loose sight of the op i do have a question regarding mating timescales.

Often when the caged virgin is released she is laying within 100 hours of release!

I let the queens lay for about a month before collecting them for sale.

-taking on board your previous answer regarding variables- do you ever notice any difference in failure rates of queens which have mated quickly compared to ones which may have taken a little longer? I've wondered this in the past in relation to the often repeated 'selling' point of mating nucs -queens tend to mate faster from them than from larger colonies.

 

[For want of a better word]

We had some success this year with a polystyreen chuk egg incubator with a lightbulb/fan/thermostat set up + waterbath for humidity.
Took fat healthy NZ capped swarm cells... incubated ... hatched... queens put into eggbox hives with a mug full of shaken ( but not stirred) bees, knob of fondant... and away they went... was not difficult!

But then I must admit I have NO qualifications BeeBeeKeeA or otherwise... if I did then probably I would worry about doing everything wrong!... as my littlest one says " they are only bugs really!"

 

[Teemore]

I have been chatting with a number of beekeepers who use incubators as part of their queen rearing process. Some are actively selecting breeder queens and using cup kit systems, larval transfer etc whereas others collect "unwanted" queen cells from beekeeping associates and pop them into an incubator to hatch them out. They then go into mating nucs etc.
I hope to have a more organised approach to Queen rearing in 2012 and have been on the look out for an incubator to help things along....

 

[For want of a better word]

I hope to have a more organized approach to Queen rearing in 2012 and have been on the look out for an incubator to help things along.

...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INCUBATOR...t=UK_Pet_Supplies_Poultry&hash=item2a14ef59b1

99p on fleaBuy !

 

[Norton]

There does not seem to be much difference between cell queens and incubator queens - not anything that could be measured or proven anyway. But I'm sure that we should try keep the whole queen rearing process as close as possible to the natural one, as I think that interference affects the performance quality to some degree, even if only slightly. Some operations use incubator hatched queens only and not queen cells. The queens are colour coded soon after eclosion.

Usually most queens are laying 16 days after cell introduction. Some lines, notably those with a high percentage of anatoliaca in them, can take longer and the period may extend up to 30 days.

It has been proven by studies that the queens should remain undisturbed in the mating nucs and allowed to lay for AT LEAST 14 DAYS if we are to avoid supercedure and poor performance problems. This is confirmed by our own observations. When we hear of problems with queens from various sources the reason is that the queen producer has been in too much of a hurry, either to get a quick turnaround in the mating nucs or because of pressure from customers to get queens out. Unfortunately this often boomerangs against the producer with a large percentage of queen failing early or supercedure. In addition, we do not use any "hard chemicals" in our queen rearing hives. These toxic substances are very harmful to queens and drones.