Urban Flow ends when ?

[BrianO]

Hi

Year two and just got my head around how to unite colonies ( Thanks to some great advice on here ), as after a hectic year of AS'ing have too many colonies . Planning on some more Unite's ( one done ) over next 3/4 days to try get a honey crop.

Wondering when the flow realistically will end in Suburbia ? assuming a couple of variables are as follows.

Average year, weather average, ( temps fluctuate daily 18/20 degrees approx ( plus or minus 2 ) good garden urban forage in mature gardens locally, and parkland with hedgerow, also god bramble spread in local hedges bordering roads and parkland. Lime in flower currently bramble starting some Balsam.

Up to when does the nectar flow last ?.

Heard differing views, think in rural areas dries up a lot quicker than urban, as large amount of exoctic's in flower now, in mature gardens from Hebes, to Lavender, Sages, Campanuala, etc, etc. etc.

Anyone shed some light on this .. Thanks

 

[pargyle]

I only have hives in a very urban setting and whilst there is rape within a couple of miles my lazy little beggars don't seem to bother with it. This year they seem to have been pretty steady bringing in Nectar from about middle April - not huge amounts of honey but it would have been better if we hadn't had such rainy windy weather when the tree's were in bloom (sycamores/blackthorn/hawthorn etc). I hit a bit of a June gap about the 6th June and over the next three weeks a lot of what they had stacked away got eaten as they were pretty big colonies.

Flow really started again first week in July .. I have a healthy mixture of urban gardens, allotments and a railway cutting within about half a mile so I fully expect the flow to continue until the end of summer when I have masses of ivy in my garden and the adjacent gardens and roadside verge and they tend to really pig out on that in readiness for winter - I hardly had to feed them at all prior to winter last year.

I have a friend who keeps bees in a very rural part of North Yorkshire and he has two flows a year .. rape or field beans in the Spring and then soft fruit about now from a PYO farm a couple of miles away. He continually bemoans the fact that nearly all the old small farms in the vicinity have been bought up by conglomerates and are either turned into huge fields of crops that have no nectar value or are dairy/pig farms where the farmers have removed every single flowering weed from the pastures and hedgerows.

The countryside of the UK is fast becoming a desert as far as our bees are concerned - I know there are incentives for farmers to return land to a more natural state but I have to be honest and say I still don't see the sort of 'real' flower meadows and hedgerows that I remember as a child in the 50's.

 

[BrianO]

Thanks Pargyle.

Agreed , same trend here in parts of Irish countryside, so sad to see.

Though my hives are in urban locations some actually on an allotment area of 3 reasnoble sized fields , other in grounds of convent, in all cases loads of old mature urban gardens around.

So I fully expect the flow to continue until the end of summer

last year was that the case for you, and I presume you mean untill end August, weather ( big ask ! ) allowing ?

 

[itma]

Bees on the Ivy marks the end of the season for me, around the end of August.

 

[Thymallus]

Agree with ending with Bees on the Ivy, around North Yorkshire this tends to be late October /Nov though and I usually leave that for them to deal with. With Balsam providing much of the late summer crop (around Late July into September). Not forgetting the ones on the moors of course.....which rarely come off until mid/late September.

 

[pargyle]

Yes ... the Ivy was very late flowering here last year ... seemed to be in bud until well into September and where it was so mild they were still packing the Ivy honey in until almost mid October. There were several Ivy Honey threads running last year around that time so it must have been a fairly common happening ... I seem to recall further North (ie: Yorkshire & north) that the ivy was even later than this in places.

In fact, whether it's the insulated hives I have or just my perverse bees but they were foraging until well after that and obviously finding something worth the effort - perhaps Autumn honeysuckle ? My neighbour had some in flower until November ! Weird year last year ...

 

[itma]

I was too terse!

When I see bees on the Ivy, that is my signal that from then on it should all go to the bees rather than my harvest.

I don't have Heather in the area. If there is Balsam, I don't think the bees have ever found it (no 'ghost bees' spotted).
As regards how long the Ivy keeps on flowing ... well I've seen bees working it (or trying to) on a sunny day at the beginning of December.
September and October foraging has been sufficient in this (sub)urban area to mean that most colonies haven't needed supplementary Autumn feeding, in recent years.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Mine were still on balsam last year in early october, the ivy flowere all october & most of November.

 

[psafloyd]

Late September, but colony numbers are seriously reduced by then.

 

[BrianO]

So the general consensus is September, so you guys would await the ivy flowering , taking honey off for consumption up to maybe end September ?

Before the unpalatable ( to most ) ivy honey comes in , leaving that for the bees . yeah ?

 

[Marton]

Here in the north east for the past two seasons we have had balsam in October and ivy in November.

The bees get everything after the end of August.

 

[BeeJayBee]

So the general consensus is September, so you guys would await the ivy flowering , taking honey off for consumption up to maybe end September ?

Unless you're in an area with very late heather, leaving supers full of honey on until the end of September may mean they are at least partially emptied by the bees. As brooding decreases they tend to backfill the brood area with stores, and the easiest way to do that is to empty the super frames.

Also, leaving honey on too late means it's difficult to get a thymol varroa treatment completed.

 

[BrianO]

Unless you're in an area with very late heather, leaving supers full of honey on until the end of September may mean they are at least partially emptied by the bees. As brooding decreases they tend to backfill the brood area with stores, and the easiest way to do that is to empty the super frames.

Also, leaving honey on too late means it's difficult to get a thymol varroa treatment completed.

Thanks BeeJay et all

So conversely to ask all,

When do you remove your last super that you will extract, on average, appreciate years differ ??

 

[Teemore]

Once the bramble/blackberry is over, there may be precious little for your bees to forage on until the ivy is on the go. If there is Himalayan Balsam near you, the bees will benefit from it until first frosts, generally speaking. You'll probably find that most beekeepers local to you will harvest honey at the beginning of August (approximately) and will treat for varroa once the honey is off. Some will have been progressively taking off capped supers throughout the season. If you get a late flow, supers can go back on if needed or just leave it for the bees to overwinter on.

 

[BeeJayBee]

So conversely to ask all,

When do you remove your last super that you will extract, on average, appreciate years differ ??

It isn't just years that differ, it's locations and colonies too. I have to deal with each of my colonies individually, because some will find the heather (if it's producing) but some won't. Some people with bees a couple of miles in one direction from my apiary take their supers off in early August, some a similar distance in the opposite direction will leave till later. But that isn't much use to you, because our bees are in the South of England, your bees aren't.

Honestly, you're better off asking locally than on an internet forum.

 

[Thymallus]

because some will find the heather (if it's producing)

It always produces...but weather on the moors may mean the bees may not be able to fly when it does. I often find the bulk of the flow is a 2 week period sometime between early August and late September. I'm told there is a 1 year in every approx 25 years when it simple produces and produces. Combs full of honey hanging from under the floors when all the supers are full.
Never seen it yet, but haven't been going to the heather for that long. Is this just a beekeeping myth or is there any truth to it?

 

[BrianO]

here's hoping for a good August flow !!... disastrous year so far lucky to fill 2 Supers at the moment and so many people promised free jars honey to !!

 

[REDWOOD]

Only an hour ago I noticed about 100 bees working a patch of Balsam, Heather just in tight bud and all the wild flower seeds the Council have planted are now flowering, last September they were still collecting nectar and just got it off in time before the dreadful Ivy started flowering.