under seige from angry bees advice please

[pargyle]

Just a few miles north of Derby
The Heather honey's just an excuse to spend time on the moors in the early morning and at dusk, the silence and traquility are good for the soul

Can't beat it ... really envious. We still come up there regularly as two of my children live in Sheffield (on Southern side of the city just at the end of the snake pass). We've got nothing like the Peak District down here.

 

[Little John]

Oh ...and so far there's not been any better advice ?

Dunno if there's anything useful in what I'm about to write - but here goes ...

I have one extremely defensive hive ('the hive from Hell') from which half-a-dozen oldsters always used to follow for up to 200 yards, and lay siege to the house for a good 48 hrs after each inspection. I've more-or-less cured that situation by moving said hive well away from the house - but - I still can't get into that hive to do an inspection or remove any nurse bees for future queen-rearing.
Seconds after I open the top - it's chaos - big cloud of angry bees intent on doing what they do best. Last time I removed well over a hundred stingers (lost count) from the suit, mainly from around the neck area. I've tried smoke/ no smoke, water mist/ no water mist. Nothing works. No other hive in this apiary is, or ever has been, like this - and rather annoyingly, this is the strongest hive I've ever known and hasn't ever received any chemical treatment (coincidence ?).

I've even considered a pint of petrol - but to be honest, I've a lot of sympathy with those bees, for I'd probably behave in exactly the same way in their place. But the problem is: even if I do decide to re-queen (which I may finally resort to) - how best to get into that hive ?

The only strategy I've come up with is to move the (sealed) hive at night, and locate it some distance away for a day or two, until a good percentage of the foragers have vacated the premises. (They'll then be with a substituted weaker hive)

But - I'm only talking about moving a hive of 2 x brood boxes and a super - that should be easy enough with a sack-truck and a couple of straps. Having 5 x supers full of honey however will make a hive very top-heavy. Maybe 2 people with a sack truck ? If the bulk of foragers could be removed, it would make the process of box removal a lot less traumatic ...

Sometimes on this forum you get useful advice sometimes people just want to tell you how clever they are

Nicely put - I've often thought that about several members here (pargyle excepted ).

LJ

 

[Rob55]

I have never heard of this, do they really lay siege to the house because they know you are in there?!

I have my first super of honey to take off soon, will the bees mood change when they realise its gone?

 

[Queens59]

Rob55 it depends on the bees! We have 5 hives in our garden and one of them is exactly as described, while the other 4 settle after a few minutes. I am re-queening by moving the main hive away as above too.

Not all bees will react this way - but if they do they do...

 

[Little John]

I have never heard of this, do they really lay siege to the house because they know you are in there?!

Yep - it's really most odd. At first there's a tendency to put it down to imagination ... (or a touch of paranoia)

But then, take another look - yes, there they are - circling around the doorway, just waiting for a chance to 'get even' ...

You'd think that after an hour or two they'd give up - but no - next day the same, and often even the day after that.

In the past I've had to leave the house by t'other door ('cause they ain't that bright ) and have had to arrange with the postie to leave mail at the end of the drive - 'cause in that mood they'll sting 'on sight'.

But as Queens says - it depends on the bees - none of my others do this. My guess is that it's a fairly rare (and primitive ?) behaviour. Shouldn't worry - just bear in mind that it's always a possibility ...

LJ

 

[user 6228]

Dunno if there's anything useful in what I'm about to write - but here goes ...

I have one extremely defensive hive ('the hive from Hell') from which half-a-dozen oldsters always used to follow for up to 200 yards, and lay siege to the house for a good 48 hrs after each inspection. I've more-or-less cured that situation by moving said hive well away from the house - but - I still can't get into that hive to do an inspection or remove any nurse bees for future queen-rearing.
Seconds after I open the top - it's chaos - big cloud of angry bees intent on doing what they do best. Last time I removed well over a hundred stingers (lost count) from the suit, mainly from around the neck area. I've tried smoke/ no smoke, water mist/ no water mist. Nothing works. No other hive in this apiary is, or ever has been, like this - and rather annoyingly, this is the strongest hive I've ever known and hasn't ever received any chemical treatment (coincidence ?).

I've even considered a pint of petrol - but to be honest, I've a lot of sympathy with those bees, for I'd probably behave in exactly the same way in their place. But the problem is: even if I do decide to re-queen (which I may finally resort to) - how best to get into that hive ?

...

LJ

anaesthetise them with one of
Carbon dioxide, nitrogen, argon

these are used on Queens to do AI etc..

 

[victor meldrew]

I've heard that a puff ball in the smoker keeps them down ,also the seed pods of the sumac (stags horn)
Vm

 

[OldMech]

Hrm.... maybe this isnt the forum for me if it upsets people so much about "washing Liquid" used on bees...
I never wear gloves or veil, and 97% of the time I am quite fine. The other 3% ?? I close up and go in the house about 65 feet away to let them calm and try again another day... However...
Bees waiting for me outside my door.. Had ONE hive that tried it... but.. NO! thats not gonna happen. They die within moments guaranteed. If they continue with that behavior they will get requeened... if it still persists they become a bonfire and are replaced post haste.. Has only happened ONCE, and I hope it never happens again.. but there is no way I'll be stuck in my house by MY own bees. Nor will I keep bees that aggressive any more than I would choose to breed a dog that is aggressive.
I know bees do their own thing, but I keep them for a reason. i do my best for them. keeping them fed, and healthy and alive through the winter. parasite and disease free... I try NOT to upset them.. and generally.. I can walk right up and sit beside my hives to watch them work without even a curious guard bee checking me out. I inspected my hives this morning.. No veil, no gloves.. My father came and watched also with no veil and no gloves.. Pulled the larger hives down to the bottom brood chamber for a good inspection, and honestly didnt have a bee give me an angry buzzby.
I guess to me its like owning a dog that bites people.. I wont put up with it... We all get upset once in a while and have a bad day,, so do dogs, and presumably bees... but there is a line in the sand that each.. SHALL NOT PASS!

 

[pargyle]

Hrm.... maybe this isnt the forum for me if it upsets people so much about "washing Liquid" used on bees...
I never wear gloves or veil, and 97% of the time I am quite fine. The other 3% ?? I close up and go in the house about 65 feet away to let them calm and try again another day... However...
Bees waiting for me outside my door.. Had ONE hive that tried it... but.. NO! thats not gonna happen. They die within moments guaranteed. If they continue with that behavior they will get requeened... if it still persists they become a bonfire and are replaced post haste.. Has only happened ONCE, and I hope it never happens again.. but there is no way I'll be stuck in my house by MY own bees. Nor will I keep bees that aggressive any more than I would choose to breed a dog that is aggressive.
I know bees do their own thing, but I keep them for a reason. i do my best for them. keeping them fed, and healthy and alive through the winter. parasite and disease free... I try NOT to upset them.. and generally.. I can walk right up and sit beside my hives to watch them work without even a curious guard bee checking me out. I inspected my hives this morning.. No veil, no gloves.. My father came and watched also with no veil and no gloves.. Pulled the larger hives down to the bottom brood chamber for a good inspection, and honestly didnt have a bee give me an angry buzzby.
I guess to me its like owning a dog that bites people.. I wont put up with it... We all get upset once in a while and have a bad day,, so do dogs, and presumably bees... but there is a line in the sand that each.. SHALL NOT PASS!

Whilst I would agree that horrible hives cannot be tolerated I think the OP in this case agreed that it was an isolated incident with bees that had previously been well behaved. I wouldn't tolerate a dog that was unnecessarily agressive but if a previously well behaved dog was provoked to the point that it turned, then I would have to question who was to blame.

On this occasion, the OP was trying to remove 5 full but uncapped supers without getting the bees out of them - it was a disaster looking for somewhere to happen. Your bees sound very much like mine and I'm sure I would know if they decided I was doing something to upset them - and I'd retreat and re-think. Avoiding confrontation with them - bees do seem to remember and the last thing you wany in a colony is a retained memory of an experience they didn't want. I wonder what the future will hold for this hive when it's calmed down ?

 

[Little John]

anaesthetise them with one of Carbon dioxide, nitrogen, argon

these are used on Queens to do AI etc..

Now that's a good idea - got plenty of CO2 - could introduce it at the top and let it work it's way down.

Nice one, thanks.

Methinks the old girl's days are numbered ...

LJ

 

[Hachi]

Now that's a good idea - got plenty of CO2 - could introduce it at the top and let it work it's way down.

Nice one, thanks.

Methinks the old girl's days are numbered ...

LJ

Where do I get some?

I swear I've been given the meanest nastiest bee's ever. As my earlier post lays tell, got a real kicking yesterday didn't even get to the brood box and was chased off the farm even tho I hid in 7 foot myscanthus for a while.

This cannot go on!!!!

Stick a round old mech I for one appreciate different views..

 

[pargyle]

Where do I get some?

I swear I've been given the meanest nastiest bee's ever. As my earlier post lays tell, got a real kicking yesterday didn't even get to the brood box and was chased off the farm even tho I hid in 7 foot myscanthus for a while.

This cannot go on!!!!

Stick a round old mech I for one appreciate different views..

I wouldn't tolerate these bees either - Got to be re-queened sooner rather than later !

 

[madasafish]

Bees that prevent you enjoying your garden and house have no place in a hobby.

If I had them, they would be dead by now.

 

[user 6228]

Where do I get some?

I swear I've been given the meanest nastiest bee's ever. As my earlier post lays tell, got a real kicking yesterday didn't even get to the brood box and was chased off the farm even tho I hid in 7 foot myscanthus for a while.

This cannot go on!!!!

Stick a round old mech I for one appreciate different views..

Co2 is a gas used in pubs to push the beer around and used in welding and fire extringuishers. I suggest you use a regulator to reduce the flow, seal the bottom and introduce via the the top
note it can kill them if overdosed just like any other anaesthetic. And no I dont know the dose.
Nitrogen or Argon would be less detectable by the bees. Co2 may induce a reaction

 

[BeeJayBee]

anaesthetise them with one of
Carbon dioxide, nitrogen, argon

these are used on Queens to do AI etc..

Where do I get some?

CO2 fire extinguisher? To anaesthetise them so you can find the queen, and then requeen, not to kill them.

 

[Hachi]

CO2 fire extinguisher? To anaesthetise them so you can find the queen, and then requeen, not to kill them.

I do WANT to re-queen them Beejoyful but when they wont let me anywhere near them it is proving difficult.

I'm taking multiple hits each time I try to do an inspection. I have set myself a limit of 10 stings before I will close up and tactically withdraw. I am following the drills, I've tried smoke and sugared water mist without effect, I am washing my suit straight away after each visit and yesterday I removed over thirty stings from my veil post a 40 minute wash cycle.

I am a newbie but my other four hives I have taken from NUCs I can handle with thin white gloves your dentist wears with minimum smoke or sugared water mist, this hive was described to me as fiesty only.

These are not fiesty bee's they are a danger to me and the farm staff and I need to do something and if dispatching them to protect me and everyone else is the only option left, it will done in a blink of an eye but first I will explore all avenues to overcome the problem.

I'm running out of ideas and I accept it may be because this is only my second season but if anyone wants to help or can suggest courses of action that will achieve the goal I'm all ears? I need to find a way to remove the supers and get below the crown board to do the re-queening process without risking my safety. Hence the question regarding Co2

 

[Hachi]

Sorry Stoneleighhouse I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[pargyle]

I'm running out of ideas and I accept it may be because this is only my second season but if anyone wants to help or can suggest courses of action that will achieve the goal I'm all ears? I need to find a way to remove the supers and get below the crown board to do the re-queening process without risking my safety. Hence the question regarding Co2

Can you slide a clearer board under the supers to get the bees out of them ... even one super at a time if necessary. Get the supers out of the way, Then, move the brood box more than three feet away from its existing position (preferably a lot further away) and put another, empty,(temporary) hive in it's original position. This will draw off the flying bees to the temporary hive in the original position of your hive from hell - leave them to settle down for the night then seal them in when they have stopped flying (block the entrance or tape it over).

Then, the following morning you can get into your original brood box, hopefully with a lot less bees attacking you, find the queen, squish her (No ... take her away and squish her at home or freeze her for future use). Remove any frames with new eggs on them in the brood box and put a frame of eggs from one of your gentle hives in there. Put the brood box back in its original position and move your temporary hive a few feet to the side. Open the entrance up and run like hell.

The flying bees you have had captive will return to the original brood box, the frame of eggs you have put in there wiil, hopefully, give them something to raise a new queen from with genes from your gentler stock. In a few weeks your problem should be over ... but, having said that, they are bees - they do what they want ! Good luck.

 

[stoneleighhouse]

Thats ok
Just finished loading up my bees to go to the moors at 5am only take the strongest 8 or 10 frames of brood
About 2 inches of rain in last 2 hours
Bees stayed dry I got drenched to the point my wellies were filling up
Bees much calmer today just one or two bugger off warnings from a couple of guard bees
J

 

[pargyle]

Bees much calmer today just one or two bugger off warnings from a couple of guard bees
J

That's a relief then ... wet feet is much better to contend with than angry bees !!