Two Unique opportunities for Cornish Beekeepers.

[Erichalfbee]

I have a LASI queen in the freezer
I have her daughter heading an enormous and bad tempered colony
Accelerated drop results week after next.

 

[B+.]

Which might make them hygienic but not specifically varroa sensitive hygienic. A complete waste of space.

You're missing my point Beefriendly. It might make them APPEAR to be hygienic, but, because the results were fiddled, they weren't comparable with what everyone else does.
Comparability is fundamental to scientific investigation. That is why the Coloss forum publishes standard scientific protocols.
As for Varroa Sensitive Hygiene (VSH), they're not even close. The hygiene test is used as a pre-selection tool for entry onto the VSH development programme. At present, that is a labour-intensive task involving manually uncapping pupae (purple-eyed stage) and categorizing any varroa mites found by age and gender. The ratio of non-reproducing to reproducing mites gives a percentage. This is called VSH.
When people talk about VSH lines, they're talking of lines that express the VSH trait at greater than 75%. The closer to 100% they are, the more desirable they are as breeding material.

 

[Beefriendly]

You're missing my point Beefriendly. .

No I'm not. The Lassi bees were not shown to exhibit VSH which is what I wrote.
The point I will make is how does strains of bees exhibiting VSH generated under II conditions etc help the rest of the beekeeping world?
It's proof of principal only.

 

[Beefriendly]

Why are we looking at VSH anyway?
Apis cerana solved it by any female larvae with varroa committing suicide in their cells. So Varroa can only breed in drone cells.
Why aren't we looking for this proven trait?
It's not removal.... its the apoptosis that should be investigated.

 

[B+.]

No I'm not. The Lassi bees were not shown to exhibit VSH which is what I wrote.
The point I will make is how does strains of bees exhibiting VSH generated under II conditions etc help the rest of the beekeeping world?
It's proof of principal only.

The LASI bees weren't even hygienic (let alone VSH) according to the commonly used definition. As I explained above, they fiddled the results to make theirs look hygienic (by allowing theirs twice as long to empty the cell).

Just like the breeding of any other animal.
Take a chicken. Millions are produced using the same basic stock. These are developed by breeders and propagated by multipliers.

 

[B+.]

Why are we looking at VSH anyway?
Apis cerana solved it by any female larvae with varroa committing suicide in their cells. So Varroa can only breed in drone cells.
Why aren't we looking for this proven trait?
It's not removal.... its the apoptosis that should be investigated.

Go right ahead. You do the work if you're so confident its the right approach.
In the mean time, we'll work on something we can do.

 

[Beefriendly]

It is. Totally proven to work. A. cerana live alongside varroa using this very tactic. Why try another approach?
Perhaps better to search for this trait in our European bees than look for a different one?

 

[B+.]

So why aren't you and others looking at the way A.cerana solved it? Not by VSH.

Let me be blunt: I am not funded by any organisation/government body. The cost of all my work comes out of my pocket. I will only do work on things that I believe in the approach and can see progress towards a goal.
I hope that's clear.

 

[Beefriendly]

I have a LASI queen in the freezer

Best place for her!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Actually, they were. I asked the lady who was fronting the programme on FB (I can't remember her name). She said they were originally Amm but open mated so they weren't hyping that side.

No mention of that from Ratsneck when he came around giving his sales patter a few years ago and it was asked by a member of the audience.
Unless the Midlands suddenly become a stronghold of Amm.
It is probably - like most of the other snake oil patter they gave - just said to try and gull a few more into buying them.

 

[Beefriendly]

. I will only do work on things that I believe in the approach and can see progress towards a goal.
I hope that's clear.

So why aren't you and others looking at the way A.cerana solved it? Not by VSH. I hope that's clear.
Belief belongs with religion. Science is facts.

 

[For want of a better word]

Why are we looking at VSH anyway?
Apis cerana solved it by any female larvae with varroa committing suicide in their cells. So Varroa can only breed in drone cells.
Why aren't we looking for this proven trait?
It's not removal.... its the apoptosis that should be investigated.

Much as I hate to eat the Humble Pie I think BF has hit that nail very firmly on the head!
So where are our Teutonic friends up to with research on this??
My worry at present is the Danish Pastry Virus that is decimating our colonies... possibly another uncontrolled import?

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

Much as I hate to eat the Humble Pie I think BF has hit that nail very firmly on the head!

Hugs all round.....whats the emoticon for big kisses (no tongues thought!!)

 

[B+.]

No mention of that from Ratsneck when he came around giving his sales patter a few years ago and it was asked by a member of the audience.
Unless the Midlands suddenly become a stronghold of Amm.
It is probably - like most of the other snake oil patter they gave - just said to try and gull a few more into buying them.

I had to push quite hard to get a proper answer. They were reluctant to give any information. As I remember, she claimed that the original stock was Amm from Colonsay. After a number of generations of open mating, I treat that claim with a pinch of salt. They were mongrels IMHO

 

[B+.]

Best place for her!

I confess: I thought it but wouldn't say it!

 

[For want of a better word]

I had to push quite hard to get a proper answer. They were reluctant to give any information. As I remember, she claimed that the original stock was Amm from Colonsay. After a number of generations of open mating, I treat that claim with a pinch of salt. They were mongrels IMHO

All bees in the UK are mongrels... even the imports... apparently!!!

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

All bees in the UK are mongrels... even the imports...

Can't get more designer mongrel than a Buckfast.
But note designed not random...

 

[For want of a better word]

Can't get more designer mongrel than a Buckfast.
But note designed not random...

Define a Buckfast!

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

Define a Buckfast!
/QUOTE]
Best queen you could ever buy (assuming breeder up to standard). That is the caveat.

 

[B+.]

Define a Buckfast!
/QUOTE]
Best queen you could ever buy (assuming breeder up to standard). That is the caveat.

That may be your opinion. Others (including myself) would disagree. However, IMHO, it's not about which race we prefer. It's about improving what we use.