Two types of orientation.

[elainemary]

To add my thoughts. Seen no evidence of Bees accompanying queens on mating flights. Searched hard for this. I contacted Prof Jamie Ellis co-author of 'Mating Biology of the honey bee' book & Prof of Entomology at Florida University after I read his blog, he confirmed he knew of no evidence of this. The drones fly to different DCA's to the queen from the same hive (also in his book with Lawrence Connor), to minimise inbreeding. I too have witnessed mass orientation flights, which is where the foragers attract the queen back to the right hive on return from mating. Fanning with their Nasonov glands, seen it a couple of times mid afternoon. Like others, don't think mating or orientation flights have any impact on honey crops.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Oriantating bees Italian mongrels June 2020
This happened about 12 ish

@elainemary in the video the first colony are orientating the others are on the honey flow.. I can't see much evidence of foraging?
Im still in the mindset that there is some sort of interruption to the honey flow. Either with a Mating swarm or orientation

If a ' Mating swarm' has left with the Queen with a percentage of worker bees are the foraging bees still foraging or have a percentage left with the Mating swarm?
These are all questions that I'm not getting answers to.

As we know when a colony swarm there is a huge impact on the colony left and there foraging abilitys.. Yes the Mating swarm go back in the hive but its not instantly.

Your thoughts?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If a ' Mating swarm' has left with the Queen with a percentage of worker bees are the foraging bees still foraging or have a percentage left with the Mating swarm?

They don't 'leave', they certainly don't all vacate/abandon the hive, they are out of the hive for a few minutes then everything goes back to normal - you still see bees carrying on foraging flights as normal throughout the whole thing.
As for bees escorting the queen, if it does happen (as some are still sceptical of this) only a handful of bees go with her so that's hardly going to affect 'normal working' is it?

 

[BugsInABox]

@elainemary in the video the first colony are orientating the others are on the honey flow.. I can't see much evidence of foraging?
Im still in the mindset that there is some sort of interruption to the honey flow. Either with a Mating swarm or orientation

If a ' Mating swarm' has left with the Queen with a percentage of worker bees are the foraging bees still foraging or have a percentage left with the Mating swarm?
These are all questions that I'm not getting answers to.

As we know when a colony swarm there is a huge impact on the colony left and there foraging abilitys.. Yes the Mating swarm go back in the hive but its not instantly.

Your thoughts?

Is it the wrong question maybe? Of course bees doing something else has an impact on foraging - as must a single bee getting lost on its first forage or two hornets grabbing some protein rather than one and so on and so on - probably the question should be is there any relevant or significant or even measurable loss and the answer from most who claim some knowledge seems to be not in their experience. Beyond that you can’t prove a negative.
BIAB

 

[Curly green finger's]

They don't 'leave', they certainly don't all vacate/abandon the hive, they are out of the hive for a few minutes then everything goes back to normal - you still see bees carrying on foraging flights as normal throughout the whole thing.
As for bees escorting the queen, if it does happen (as some are still sceptical of this) only a handful of bees go with her so that's hardly going to affect 'normal working' is it?

So if a Mating swarm doesn't leave follow the Queen what happens? What % of bee's are in the Mating swarm? Time outside of the hive?
My understanding of a Mating swarm which you said yourself you have observed?? Is that % of workers leave with the Queen deside they shouldn't have and head back to the hive..
No one said about a colony abondening the hive.
What saw and the teens was that the Mating swarm didn't settle but travelled 30 metres and then headed back, they then bearded the hive.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Is it the wrong question maybe? Of course bees doing something else has an impact on foraging - as must a single bee getting lost on its first forage or two hornets grabbing some protein rather than one and so on and so on - probably the question should be is there any relevant or significant or even measurable loss and the answer from most who claim some knowledge seems to be not in their experience. Beyond that you can’t prove a negative.
BIAB

Maybe the wrong questions but I'm intreged and it seems a bit of a grey area.. There's not really much known about a Mating swarm and what happens imo.

Any thing I read about it, it's all a bit hazey.. Yes I've seen it happen but??

True I can't prove a negative but its all very interesting all the same.

I must do some work now.

 

[elainemary]

@elainemary in the video the first colony are orientating the others are on the honey flow.. I can't see much evidence of foraging?
Im still in the mindset that there is some sort of interruption to the honey flow. Either with a Mating swarm or orientation

If a ' Mating swarm' has left with the Queen with a percentage of worker bees are the foraging bees still foraging or have a percentage left with the Mating swarm?
These are all questions that I'm not getting answers to.

As we know when a colony swarm there is a huge impact on the colony left and there foraging abilitys.. Yes the Mating swarm go back in the hive but its not instantly.

Your thoughts?

The queen typically is away 15 - 30 mins or less on her flight, bees don't accompany her, they attract her back in minutes. Don't think enough bees are involved to impact a honey flow, as others have said too.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So if a Mating swarm doesn't leave follow the Queen what happens? What % of bee's are in the Mating swarm? Time outside of the hive?

Not sure whether you are being deliberately obtuse or just not listening as more than one person has said on here, who have seen the phenomenon, they are out for a few minutes then return to the hive

 

[Curly green finger's]

Not sure whether you are being deliberately obtuse or just not listening as more than one person has said on here, who have seen the phenomenon, they are out for a few minutes then return to the hive

No I'm not trying to be obtuse Delideratly.. Overzealous maybe.
Conclusion sorted cheers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Even if the whole hive decamped for the fifteen minutes the queen was out or for even half a day. Would it have much impact?
I have seen a prime swarm leave a hive with pollen laden foragers fighting through the melee to get in. Life goes on.

 

[pargyle]

So if a Mating swarm doesn't leave follow the Queen what happens? What % of bee's are in the Mating swarm? Time outside of the hive?
My understanding of a Mating swarm which you said yourself you have observed?? Is that % of workers leave with the Queen deside they shouldn't have and head back to the hive..
No one said about a colony abondening the hive.
What saw and the teens was that the Mating swarm didn't settle but travelled 30 metres and then headed back, they then bearded the hive.

It's not all of the bees in the colony that come out when the virgin flies ... but just some of them .. I don't know what percentage because it has never bothered me:

a) The bees usually know what they are doing.
b) I can't prevent it happening.
c) If there was an impact how on earth would you measure it and why bother ?

The mating swarm don't usually go very far ... it's normally just a cloud of bees in the vicinity of the hive ... they don't go off with the queen, within a couple of minutes they are heading back into the hive or getting on with what bees do. When the queen returns ... it's often only half and hour or so - can be less depending on where the DCA is - some bees will come out to greet her and you will see them on the landing board or the front of the hive fanning ... the same way you see a swarm fanning when you hive them .. spreading the pheremones of the colony and advertising where they are.

I suspect what was happening in the case you describe may have been something else other than a mating swarm ... are you sure there was a virgin in the colony and not a clipped queen ? It sounds (and looks) to me more like an aborted attempt at swarming - either the queen was reluctant to go or she was clipped an could not go. 30 to 50 metres is often the distance a normal swarm will fly to an initial setting down point. Without more information (and knowledge of the state of the colony) you will never know what was going on ... bees do what bees do ... sometimes it is better to just accept that is what they have done and sod the explanation. Go and make some frames up ... less brain taxing.

 

[Curly green finger's]

It's not all of the bees in the colony that come out when the virgin flies ... but just some of them .. I don't know what percentage because it has never bothered me:

a) The bees usually know what they are doing.
b) I can't prevent it happening.
c) If there was an impact how on earth would you measure it and why bother ?

The mating swarm don't usually go very far ... it's normally just a cloud of bees in the vicinity of the hive ... they don't go off with the queen, within a couple of minutes they are heading back into the hive or getting on with what bees do. When the queen returns ... it's often only half and hour or so - can be less depending on where the DCA is - some bees will come out to greet her and you will see them on the landing board or the front of the hive fanning ... the same way you see a swarm fanning when you hive them .. spreading the pheremones of the colony and advertising where they are.

I suspect what was happening in the case you describe may have been something else other than a mating swarm ... are you sure there was a virgin in the colony and not a clipped queen ? It sounds (and looks) to me more like an aborted attempt at swarming - either the queen was reluctant to go or she was clipped an could not go. 30 to 50 metres is often the distance a normal swarm will fly to an initial setting down point. Without more information (and knowledge of the state of the colony) you will never know what was going on ... bees do what bees do ... sometimes it is better to just accept that is what they have done and sod the explanation. Go and make some frames up ... less brain taxing.

Im at work.
There was an emerging queen in the hive I don't clip queen's.
As you said they do what they do and they know.
I will learn about this quietly... While I make frames up.
Ponder and make more frames up.

 

[Swarm]

My observation late Summer this year, suddenly aware there were a few bees in the air, I was busy doing other stuff at the time. It was a swirl of bees, looked like one of those dust devils, drifted across the apiary. It would have been a very small swarm, they headed towards a group of trees but didn't go beyond. I checked the canopy and no sign of bee activity at all so went back to the hives for a check. Plenty of activity around the nuc on the far stand and the date coincided with a possible mating flight.
They traveled about thirty meters and the whole thing lasted as long as it took to walk there and back. If I'd stayed by the hives instead of following the bees, I would have seen them all coming back.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My observation late Summer this year, suddenly aware there were a few bees in the air, I was busy doing other stuff at the time. It was a swirl of bees, looked like one of those dust devils, drifted across the apiary. It would have been a very small swarm, they headed towards a group of trees but didn't go beyond. I checked the canopy and no sign of bee activity at all so went back to the hives for a check. Plenty of activity around the nuc on the far stand and the date coincided with a possible mating flight.
They traveled about thirty meters and the whole thing lasted as long as it took to walk there and back. If I'd stayed by the hives instead of following the bees, I would have seen them all coming back.

Which is exactly what happened with the bees in my video

 

[Apple]

Has anyone experienced an apiary vicinity manic mating episode.
Possibly a native black Cornish bee idiosyncrasy?

All goes quiet... foragers vanish... then a mass eruption of drones piling out of all the colonies... literally banging into each other and falling to the ground.. the smell of bee pheromone in the air.... then silence.
Never seen a queen among them.... as yet!

Nadelik Lowen

 

[pargyle]

Has anyone experienced an apiary vicinity manic mating episode.
Possibly a native black Cornish bee idiosyncrasy?

All goes quiet... foragers vanish... then a mass eruption of drones piling out of all the colonies... literally banging into each other and falling to the ground.. the smell of bee pheromone in the air.... then silence.
Never seen a queen among them.... as yet!

Nadelik Lowen

Sounds a bit like kicking out time in the Pubs on the hard in Portsmouth on a Saturday night ... however, there's usually a few queens amongst the drones !

 

[Apple]

Sounds a bit like kicking out time in the Pubs on the hard in Portsmouth on a Saturday night ... however, there's usually a few queens amongst the drones !

HELLO SAILOR !

 

[pargyle]

HELLO SAILOR !

You've obvously been there !!

 

[Apple]

You've obvously been there !!

Did a spell at Dolphin!!!
OMG those sub mariners were a bunch of Pi** Heads!!!!

 

[pargyle]

Did a spell at Dolphin!!!
OMG those sub mariners were a bunch of Pi** Heads!!!!

It was a lot rougher in the 1960's ... I was a student at Portsmouth Poly in the late 60's and the Ship Leopard (now a Boutique Hotel would you believe) you could guarantee would be stuffed to the gunnels most nights of the week with matelots who would inevitably end up fighting on the pavement ... There were scores of pubs down there .. although we preferred the Southsea seafront - The Timber Tavern, The Clarence, the Gaiety Lounge on South Parade Pier and the Old Portsmouth pubs such as the Still and West and the Coal Exchange as they were slightly more civilised than those on the hard. We also liked the pubs in Albert Road Southsea - the Gravediggers, the Bold Forester and the Festing Arms which nearly all had bar billiards and were more 'locals' and a little safer. There was so much choice in those days - most pub crawls really ended up like that !