Two queen colonies

[Fusion_power]

I'm setting up my hives to run 2 queens for honey production and plan to winter at least 12 colonies as 2 queen units. Here is a link with hardware very similar to what I have built.

https://www.imkertechnik-wagner.de/shop/magazinbeuten/12er-dandant-modifiziert.html

Has anyone else run 2 queen hives for honey production? If so, do you think the increased honey production is worth the extra work?

 

[domino]

I've always wanted to try this, hopefully this thread will have lots of top tips.

 

[B+.]

Has anyone else run 2 queen hives for honey production? If so, do you think the increased honey production is worth the extra work?

Have you spoken with Michael Palmer about your plans?
He uses 2 queens in side-by-side nucs to produce brood for use in cell builder/honey production. Surely, this is the same thing?

 

[Anduril]

I'm sure it has been mentioned on this forum, with the pros and cons. I believe it has been suggested you get more in one queen colonies than two queen colonies.

 

[Fusion_power]

Side by side nuc colonies for honey production are used by several U.S. and Canadian beekeepers. I've had extensive discussions about this with several beekeepers who are running these systems. Nobody runs 2 queens over winter which is one of the goals I have. They are set up in early spring with newly mated queens, kept in a side by side nuc configuration during the nectar flow, then managed as separate colonies for winter. Note that a 5 frame Langstroth nuc does not have enough resources to winter properly even as far south as here in Alabama. This makes these type 2 queen setups strictly a summer endeavor.

I also have discussed running them horizontally in square Dadant hives with BernhardHeuvel who runs 300 two queen colonies in Germany. Here is an ongoing discussion on beesource that covers quite a bit.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?306234-Running-two-queen-colonies

I have run vertical 2 queen colonies with a queen in the bottom hive body, an excluder, and another queen in a second hive body using Langstroth deep equipment. I do NOT like this system because it entails a lot more work than a single queen colony and it is strictly seasonal with one queen being killed after the flow is over.

The advantage of a 2 queen system is that nearly twice as much honey can be produced per hive using less equipment than comparable single queen colonies. Think about it for a minute and see that a horizontal 2 queen system uses one top cover, one bottom board, one hive body, one excluder, one divider, and two queens. If one queen fails, no problem, just remove the divider and run it as a single queen hive through the flow. If both queens continue to be productive, then the amount of brood can be twice as much as in a single queen colony with resulting nearly doubled honey production. One way to look at this is that for the cost of an extra queen, honey production is significantly increased. There is an increase in number of supers required to store the honey. The advantage of overwintering 2 queens in a single hive are having extra queens very early in the spring when they are difficult to obtain.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Have you spoken with Michael Palmer about your plans?
He uses 2 queens in side-by-side nucs to produce brood for use in cell builder/honey production. Surely, this is the same thing?

Not exactly, as I harvest brood from them, so the honey crop is diminished. I do get 4-8 deep lang frames from some of them, but honey isn't the goal. If I were to run double nucs for honey, I would run the nucs in 3 stories with an excluder on top, and supers on top.

Too much work. Perhaps a double queen colony....would have more brood and bees...and then united at the start of the main nectar flow.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

The advantage of a 2 queen system is that nearly twice as much honey can be produced per hive using less equipment than comparable single queen colonies. Think about it for a minute and see that a horizontal 2 queen system uses one top cover, one bottom board, one hive body, one excluder, one divider, and two queens. If one queen fails, no problem, just remove the divider and run it as a single queen hive through the flow. If both queens continue to be productive, then the amount of brood can be twice as much as in a single queen colony with resulting nearly doubled honey production. One way to look at this is that for the cost of an extra queen, honey production is significantly increased. There is an increase in number of supers required to store the honey. The advantage of overwintering 2 queens in a single hive are having extra queens very early in the spring when they are difficult to obtain.

To me it still looks like you're saving a stand a floor and a roof for the price of a LOT of lifting. In London I end up doing that for space (vertical A/S) but with space I would never.

 

[drex]

This year, for the first time, I ran a nuc alongside each production colony. As per MP I used these as brood factories, taking full frames of brood from the nuc and adding to the production colonies. This kept the nucs from swarming and increased the number of bees in my main hives. Best year for honey yet. Although the weather here probably helped I will do the same next year. The home made nucs are now all well insulated, in one group, and will try to take them through winter. Not a lot of extra work either.

 

[Finman]

.
Yield depends on pastures. It does bot help if you use 2 queens, but you are not willing to move beside to better nectar sourcers. Yeah, you do not have time to move, but you have time to play with 5 cell sizes and with odd frame sizes.

Unite medium large hives for main yield. Then you have less brood and more honey workers.


Foragers must be reared 1.5-2 months earlier than bees start to forage.
Then they need as much home workers.

.My hive roofs o at the level of my hair with one queen. That is enough to me and to my back. Buy good queens. Then mix your suberb bees with normal bees and they pick the mites off.

 

[Eyeman]

Uniting strong colonies or boosting colonies by adding soon-to-emerge brood prior to a flow gets the supers filled.
Here is one of my apiaries just before the balsam flowers. The one in the foreground is having 3 colonies united using newspaper, the others just 2.
I also use support nucs from which brood is donated to strengthen production colonies.
I disagree with Finman, as I don't donate or unite 6-8 weeks before a major flow. I believe the newly emerged bees will displace older bees to be foragers so that the foraging force will increase soon after the brood you have donated has emerged.

 

[Finman]

I disagree with Finman, as I don't donate or unite 6-8 weeks before a major flow.

I believe the newly emerged bees will displace older bees to be foragers so that the foraging force will increase soon after the brood you have donated has emerged.

I have not said that I unite or donate 8 weeks before major flow.
I wrote that brood are reared and layed. When bees emerge, 3-4 weeks have gone.
Larva rearing time is one week, and pupa time 2 weeks.
..

It means that when main flow starts at the behinning of July, a nuc box or small colony must have one full box of brood at the first week of June. Those bees participate to honey handling in the hive, but they are not old enough to forage in that summer.

To get one box full of brood weak hives need emerging bees from bigger hive. Or then I must join smaller colonies, that they are usefull.

 

[Eyeman]

Foragers must be reared 1.5-2 months earlier than bees start to forage.
Then they need as much home workers.

This is what you said about foragers.
I disagree.
As soon as new bees emerge they displace older nurse bees who can then be recruited as foragers. So when you introduce soon-to-emerge brood into a colony you will get an increase in the foraging force much sooner than you would normally expect.

 

[Finman]

This is what you said about foragers.
I disagree.
As soon as new bees emerge they displace older nurse bees who can then be recruited as foragers. So when you introduce soon-to-emerge brood into a colony you will get an increase in the foraging force much sooner than you would normally expect.

You are wrong. Totally wrong. So simple. I know this thing better than you.

To get a Real yield the home workers and foragers must be in balance.

One example. Two years ago I had qrowen a two box hive by moving emerging bees from other hives . Queen was a good layer. Originally the queen had cup full of bees.Then the queen stopped laying. I looked the frames and I saw no pollen in them.

Home bees and energing bees had used all pollen stores and there was not much foragers which carried pollen.
Then I got a small swarm from a friend. I moved the colony to another yard where they have enough food. In four days the queen layed 5 frames. The had huge amount of nurser bees and swarm foragers brought pollen and nectar.




.
.

 

[Eyeman]

You are wrong. Totally wrong. So simple. I know this thing better than you.

Now where have I heard that before?

 

[Finman]

Now where have I heard that before?

You do just as you like.

 

[Eyeman]

You do just as you like.

I thought that was what we all did?

 

[user 6228]

Side by side nucs. Thats just to reduce heat loss? or is there something else?

 

[Anduril]

Side by side nucs. Thats just to reduce heat loss? or is there something else?

Derek read posts 1 & 6, two different versions one to produce honey, the other to harvest brood, both 2 queen systems under the one roof. Not just to reduce heat loss.

 

[For want of a better word]

Considering 2 queen system for the Rose hives.
Two nucs side by side fit under standard Rose hive box, with a QX above.
Two more nuc sise boxes above and even four would give double brood + 1/2.

Hope for a good nectar flow and I will be able to sell honey even cheaper than my cheapest competitor.

Skeps sometimes seem like a good idea!

Nos da

 

[ladaok]

You are wrong. Totally wrong. So simple. I know this thing better than you.

To get a Real yield the home workers and foragers must be in balance.

One example. Two years ago I had qrowen a two box hive by moving emerging bees from other hives . Queen was a good layer. Originally the queen had cup full of bees.Then the queen stopped laying. I looked the frames and I saw no pollen in them.

Home bees and energing bees had used all pollen stores and there was not much foragers which carried pollen.
Then I got a small swarm from a friend. I moved the colony to another yard where they have enough food. In four days the queen layed 5 frames. The had huge amount of nurser bees and swarm foragers brought pollen and nectar.

sounds like a LACK of pollen at the 1st site to me ... then again, I could be totally totally wrong