Raising Bigger Queens. With thanks to the Apiarist

[SWEET]

Interesting post, some of my monster (egg capacity) queens are small, some large (most standard) all differ. I doubt the genetic process (passing of data) changes and most of the important information comes from drones anyway.

His posts are great but there are errors Demaree etc (this might have changed) but his method does fail.

 

[rolande]

His posts are great but there are errors Demaree etc (this might have changed) but his method does fail.

Who's posts?

 

[SWEET]

Who's posts?

Apiarist - Is the thread not about him ?

 

[Oculentum]

You can lead a horse to water ... then the damn' thing has a hissy fit and bolts back to the safety of its stable.

 

[rolande]

Apiarist - Is the thread not about him ?

Well no, personally I don't think it's about him, it started as a journal of an attempt at queen rearing by madasafish, based on some research reported through the apiarists blog. You could have been referring to one of the scientists that did the research or any of the people that have 'posted' in this thread (although I think it's several years since fatshark himself posted anything on the forum). It was just a simple question.

 

[SWEET]

Bad words - Is the thread not about his posts.

Will have a proper read, interesting stuff but personally I've seen good results from a range of Queen sizes. I'm more interested in the drones (the queen side is the easy(er) bit).

It'll be great to read how you get on from your testing, look forward to it - may give it a go out of curiosity.

 

[Moobee]

Meanwhile, my 3rd attempt at grafts has failed. Again. Bah! Maybe i'm just rubbish at grafting.
Has anyone tried cell punching with much success? And if so, what kit did you use?

 

[jarmo henttu]

Meanwhile, my 3rd attempt at grafts has failed. Again. Bah! Maybe i'm just rubbish at grafting.
Has anyone tried cell punching with much success? And if so, what kit did you use?

Take a hive in swarming fever and change the queen cell larvae from good hive. You get 100% succes in grafting. Queens will be maximum size.
I have done this 20 years.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Meanwhile, my 3rd attempt at grafts has failed. Again. Bah! Maybe i'm just rubbish at grafting.
Has anyone tried cell punching with much success? And if so, what kit did you use?

There's a lot of advice on grafting here:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/queen-rearing-first-go-grafting.55680/

I'm a relative novice at this but it soon became quick and easy with good light, good vision, and being able to SEE the Chinese tool move under the back of the larva and scoop it up in a pool of royal jelly. Also, being certain that I was grafting new larvae, barely any bigger than eggs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Also, being certain that I was grafting new larvae, barely any bigger than eggs.

ah, but what size eggs?

 

[SWEET]

 

[jarmo henttu]

There's a lot of advice on grafting here:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/queen-rearing-first-go-grafting.55680/

I'm a relative novice at this but it soon became quick and easy with good light, good vision, and being able to SEE the Chinese tool move under the back of the larva and scoop it up in a pool of royal jelly. Also, being certain that I was grafting new larvae, barely any bigger than eggs.

Draft such larva, which you are able to move.

What I have used to move they have been 24 hours old.

I have used a sharp stick made from a tree branch. I have used them 55 years. I make a new every time.

 

[SWEET]

Sharp stick made from a tree branch, love it.

 

[jarmo henttu]

Also, being certain that I was grafting new larvae, barely any bigger than eggs.

You are making the job too difficult

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have just read this posted by a bee farmer who used to be a member here

"first eggs laid whenever a queen has been off lay are larger and have more vitelogenin than normal eggs, so they are ideal for producing good queens.
It's not uncommon for queen rearers to force a brood break before grafting larvae , because those first eggs are superior."

 

[jarmo henttu]

I have just read this posted by a bee farmer who used to be a member here

"first eggs laid whenever a queen has been off lay are larger and have more vitelogenin than normal eggs, so they are ideal for producing good queens.
It's not uncommon for queen rearers to force a brood break before grafting larvae , because those first eggs are superior."

My gueen are never off lay during acyive season. How do I find such superior eggs.

First point is the time of the year when you can start queen rearing in Spring. Is it possible that the queen starts just then its laying? Of course not. First the colony must rear new bees because winter bees die quite quickly when they go to forage. Such hive cannot rear queens.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My gueen are never off lay during acyive season.

I presume they are caged?

 

[rolande]

...

 

[SWEET]

I have just read this posted by a bee farmer who used to be a member here

"first eggs laid whenever a queen has been off lay are larger and have more vitelogenin than normal eggs, so they are ideal for producing good queens.
It's not uncommon for queen rearers to force a brood break before grafting larvae , because those first eggs are superior."

This is not something any of the breeders/rearers I talk to practice or have come across (including myself), did check just to make sure it was not a thing.

 

[Paulypaul]

Queens lay 3 types of eggs: Worker, Drone and Queen.
Laying of the queen egg is triggered by the size of the queen cell. Yet, most queen rearing techniques use worker eggs.
I remember several beekeepers telling me swarm and suoerceedure cells produce the best queens. Now, we know why.

"More research is needed, but the key observation is that queens lay bigger eggs in queen cups than they do in worker cells. These develop into bigger queens. Furthermore, these bigger queens 'perform' better in terms of brood production, and the trait appears to be inherited."

https://theapiarist.org/bigger-queens-better-queens-part-1/
https://theapiarist.org/bigger-queens-better-queens-part-2/
https://theapiarist.org/bigger-queens-better-queens-part-3/

This implies queens produced using worker eggs don't lay/live as long as those from queen eggs.
I assume this has important implications for commercially bred queens