Two queen colonies

[jenkinsbrynmair]

t I do my way like Frank Sinatra.

Beekeeping in a toupee?

 

[Finman]

Beekeeping in a toupee?

(H)eureka!
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[Fusion_power]

" The bees are filling a full deep super with honey first, below the queen excluder." Back to the drawing board.

One of the flaws of the the excluder is that some bees just won't go through it. I would remove the excluder and give the bees a week to work in a super that contains foundation plus 1 fully drawn comb, then put the excluder back on after the bees are working freely in the super. If the queen lays in the drawn frame, move it back below the excluder and replace with a frame of foundation.

Another problem is that there is too much space in two deep boxes for marginal queens. That sounds like an oxymoron, but it is something I've seen numerous times in the past. The bees know there is more space than they need so they fill the top box with the second queen first. Running a vertical 2 queen setup requires prolific queens like Italians that want to lay up every available cell in brood.

Then there is the genetic angle, Brother Adam made a point to breed bees that store away from the brood nest in the spring but close to the brood nest in the fall. Bees that store close to the brood nest in the spring constrict laying space effectively shutting down part of the flow from lack of bees.

Last there are the characteristics of the flow to be considered. Short erratic flows with small surplus will almost always be stored close to the brood. Bees go further away from the brood only during strong "halt the presses, don't do anything but collect more honey" nectar flows.

The two queen system he is describing is a vertical Langstroth double brood which as I've already posted is too much work and has too many weaknesses.

Note to self, remember to take a picture of one of my queens and her brood nest next spring so JBM can see what a mite resistant queen can do for brood production. Come to think of it, wonder why he never takes pictures of his 3 hives of woeful Welsh welkins. Could it be that he gets no bees, he gets no honey, and he gets no money from them?

 

[Finman]

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I use 3 langstroth brood boxes, and no excluders. 2 brood boxes is not enough, lowest box is cold and it lifts the Queen to the third box. Bees fill coldest combs with pollen.

So bees do not store pollen into supers.

Fusion, you have cold hives and too small colonies. And you want bees to do such things, what they will not do. Bee is wild animal and you should learn first what their instincts make them do.
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[Fusion_power]

bees do not store pollen into supers

You must not remember those "black devils" from years past very well. They would plug all available spaces with pollen including honey supers with every single frame full of cells of pollen.


I'm surprised at the near total lack of thinking through the underlying reason why I am giving two queen colonies a trial. I don't expect a few posters to think much, but there are several posters in this thread who should have asked questions. You already know from other threads that I purchased 8 Buckfast queens from Ferguson's in Canada. Does anyone other than me wonder what would happen if a Buckfast queen were put side by side with a mite resistant queen? Would the mite resistant bees cross over and protect the Buckfast side from mites? Would the swarming tendency of the mite resistant bees trigger a washtub size swarm? Would the combined capabilities of the queens be synergistic enough to produce a good honey crop? Put your mind to work and ask what could be learned from a colony with a mite resistant queen beside a highly productive queen.

The one person who made me think in this thread was derekm. He posed a question that I had not considered with regards to the effects being triggered. He isn't a beekeeper, Elaine has them all!

 

[Finman]

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If you think that you are only in the world who thinks something, it is a sound of alarm bells.

 

[Finman]

I'm surprised at the near total lack of thinking through the underlying reason why I am giving two queen colonies a ..!

Your alarm bells do not RING.

When I started 50 years ago, 2-Queen hives were usual issue. But now colonies are 3 folf bigger than 50 y ago. No need to keep over 2 metre high hives.

I know a gang which keeps 2 queen's in the hive, but their method is not wise. And their yields are modest. Nothing to learn.
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But do it, you propel head.

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Note to self, remember to take a picture of one of my queens and her brood nest next spring so JBM can see what a mite resistant queen can do for brood production.

'swarminess and mediocre yield' I think were more or less the terms you used about your mythical mite,beetle,nosema, asian hornet resistant bees in another thread.

 

[REDWOOD]

It All sounds a bit too much messing about to me, I'll stick to one queen colonies.
My plan next year is to double brood 14x12's with a few prolific queens and I hope to get close on what you guys get with two queen colonies

 

[B+.]

Note to self, remember to take a picture of one of my queens and her brood nest next spring so JBM can see what a mite resistant queen can do for brood production.

Something like this http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744
This is just one of my test queens in a double Langstroth brood. Imagine what two of them would do side by side. No don't. - it would be crazy to do it

 

[Anduril]

The mite tolerant bees that Marla Spivak produced had a smaller brood nest and produced less honey IIRC from either an article or the National Honey Show.

 

[Fusion_power]

Imagine what two of them would do side by side.

The objective of a 2 queen system is to produce more honey using less equipment. In other words, to increase the efficiency of the operation. The problem with a 2 queen set up is that management costs go up. If management cost is not offset by increased production, then the system may be perfectly workable but not practical.

I won't imagine you with 4 colonies next spring set up with 2 queens. You wouldn't be able to measure each queen's performance. Nobody wants to build the tower of London using bees. If this gives any ideas, squash them fast.