Trap out.

[Beanwood]

Right, here goes. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin

A couple of weeks ago, my neighbour saw me in the garden, and started with that ominous "Oh - have you got a minute?".

Anyway, long story short(er) they have a swarm of bees nicely ensconced into their stone wall, behind their guttering fascia boards, about 10 feet off the ground. They had arrived the previous day, and were all over the wall, but they didn't want to bother me - NO, they'd much rather wait until they'd made themselves well at home.

This happens to be around 50 metres from my three (And a half) colonies - but I'm sure theyre (Possibly ) nothing to do with me. They had a swarm there two years ago, and had them exterminated, and the wall repointed - but apparently not behind the fascia boards... - so there must be other bees in the area. I've only had bees since May, so the previous ones definitely weren't mine.

ANYWAY

It's right next to where they park the cars, and they were talking of killing them off again - so having smoked to no avail, I came up with the idea (From here) of a trapout. (Yes, sorry, I know your views Chris L)

SO

Manufactured a funnel on a board, to allow an escape but no return, and placed a nuc box with some old foundation, laced with lemongrass oil atop a ladder next to the trap.

I checked again two days later, and lo - a nuc box with loads of bees in it!!!

HOWEVER

I left them there, to try and get more of them, but the little sweethearts were also managing to get back into 'their' nest behind the guttering. As a result, I think either I have caught a completely separate swarm, or they've split.

Does anyone have any ideas of what to do next please?

Neighbours are happy for the time being, but don't really fancy having a ladder there for 6 months whilst I try to get the rest (Even if I knew how to)
Should I relocate the bees from the nuc (They'n need to go 50 meters away to my apiary somehow) and reset it, but this time making sure they can't get back in, or something else??

I've only been up an adjacent ladder once to check and they appear to be over five frames - although I didn't disturb enough to check for a queen, or eggs.

So, with a rare dry day tomorrow, any ideas of my next steps?

Any wisdom appreciated.

(Sorry for the long post)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is there a queen in the nuc? it's a heck of a job to coax the queen out but it does happen. If the queeen is there - all well and good you then have to sacrifice whats left and seal up.

 

[beeno]

Trap out

Hi there,
Did it a couple of weeks ago and was caught short in the process as my neighbours were having a party and the bees were in the cavity next to patio.
This is what I would do. Transfer to your permanent nuc in your garden tonight with feed and eggs and brood. I put a twig outside the opening as advised by many. Hopefully they are still in swarm mode and will relocate to new position. Make sure there is only one entrance/exit which is difficult and milk off some more. If your neighbours are patience you may get the queen. I didn't, but I am looking forward to a mating flight tomorrow from my trapout nuc! My distance from neighbour was 500m and they left the bees like yours when they first arrived thinking they would disperse!

 

[Beanwood]

Bittersweet news on this - I have a nice nuc full of bees, and a laying queen

Tonight I began the process of moving them - first step down from 9 feet to 6 feet off the ground, so they're easier to manipulate prior to a temporary relocate to 15 miles away

Unfortunately there remain a few in the wall that I can't get to. I think they will have to be killed off somehow.

 

[Karol]

Bittersweet news on this - I have a nice nuc full of bees, and a laying queen

Tonight I began the process of moving them - first step down from 9 feet to 6 feet off the ground, so they're easier to manipulate prior to a temporary relocate to 15 miles away

Unfortunately there remain a few in the wall that I can't get to. I think they will have to be killed off somehow.

Would these bees come to raw honey do you think? Only if so I might have a solution for you but as I don't want to breach advertising rules you might consider e-mailing me off list.

 

[jackbee]

Bittersweet news on this - I have a nice nuc full of bees, and a laying queen

Tonight I began the process of moving them - first step down from 9 feet to 6 feet off the ground, so they're easier to manipulate prior to a temporary relocate to 15 miles away

Unfortunately there remain a few in the wall that I can't get to. I think they will have to be killed off somehow.

Is it the Q from the wall?

will they now build a new Queen cell as they're Q-?

or does it depend on how many are left in there and how much brood?

only questions i'm afraid but I'm interested in the answers

 

[Chris Luck]

Unfortunately there remain a few in the wall that I can't get to. I think they will have to be killed off somehow

If bees are staying in the wall and your nuc is that close then the bees in the wall either have a Queen or are possibly moving stores - the bees will always follow the queen when a short distance.

Chris

 

[Beanwood]

If bees are staying in the wall and your nuc is that close then the bees in the wall either have a Queen or are possibly moving stores - the bees will always follow the queen when a short distance.

Chris

Perhaps I'm not quite a lucky as I first hoped and they still have a queen. There are still a number managing to get back to the original site.
BUT if that's the case, where did this new queen come from? Is it possible to get a virgin queen caught up in a swarm?? (That subsequently gets mated...) and for them to swarm almost immediately??

Is it the Q from the wall?

will they now build a new Queen cell as they're Q-?

or does it depend on how many are left in there and how much brood?

only questions i'm afraid but I'm interested in the answers

As to Chris - on reflection, it's a real shame, and TBH I don''t understand, but perhaps 'The wall' isn't queenless.

 

[Chris Luck]

Is it possible to get a virgin queen caught up in a swarm?? (That subsequently gets mated...) and for them to swarm almost immediately??

The first part probably happens more often than is realised, that is a swarm with the "existing queen" and a virgin queen caught up in it, I see it quite frequently and it would seem that it's usually the virgin queen that is evicted from the new colony, sometimes several days later.

Earlier this year I removed a colony from a roof that had only been there a week, so not a huge amount of comb or honey. Once the comb was removed the bees clustered, (as per normal), and I knocked them into a box as best as possible given the space available. Put them in a "nuc box" with some comb and bees started coming and going and all seemed fine, as it was.. BUT it became clear after a week or so that although I had a Q+ colony in the nuc box, there was still another Q+ colony left behind and definitely not a new one but half the original.

My point is simply that all manner of permutations are possible, even three queens in a swarm, most likely depending on the weather conditions in the period before swarming, (that is if swarming had been prevented).

Just my speculation and observations, it will be interesting to see what happens with your situation should you not poison the "hole", after all they may just be emptying out the stores.

Chris

 

[jackbee]

well, you certainly can't say beekeeping is boring - either in the field or here on the t'internet

 

[Beanwood]

The first part probably happens more often than is realised, that is a swarm with the "existing queen" and a virgin queen caught up in it, I see it quite frequently and it would seem that it's usually the virgin queen that is evicted from the new colony, sometimes several days later.

Earlier this year I removed a colony from a roof that had only been there a week, so not a huge amount of comb or honey. Once the comb was removed the bees clustered, (as per normal), and I knocked them into a box as best as possible given the space available. Put them in a "nuc box" with some comb and bees started coming and going and all seemed fine, as it was.. BUT it became clear after a week or so that although I had a Q+ colony in the nuc box, there was still another Q+ colony left behind and definitely not a new one but half the original.

My point is simply that all manner of permutations are possible, even three queens in a swarm, most likely depending on the weather conditions in the period before swarming, (that is if swarming had been prevented).

Just my speculation and observations, it will be interesting to see what happens with your situation should you not poison the "hole", after all they may just be emptying out the stores.

Chris

Good to hear of your experiences thank you - it helps my understanding. I've got to relocate the nuc tonight. Neighbours are away until tomorrow, and I've got them down to almost ground level to make the transportation process a little easier.

It's always difficult to provide advice when you can't see what's actually going on, but I don't think it's clearing out of stores, because many were returning to the original site at dusk.

Once I've relocated, I'll try (If the neighbours are agreeable) to reset the nuc and see what happens.

 

[Chris Luck]

I am right in understanding that you definitely have a queen in your nuc and that you didn't introduce her or any brood?

Chris

 

[Beanwood]

I am right in understanding that you definitely have a queen in your nuc and that you didn't introduce her or any brood?

Chris

Spot on.